Why Are Protestants So Pro-israel?

[Archbishop 10-K]

A lot of Protestant churches, especially fundie and evangelical, are very pro-Zionist, pro-Israel; much moreso than the Catholic Church. A lot of times, it gets to the point where they make it to where it is a sin (not to mention anti-Semitic) to oppose the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (even though Arabs are technically also Semites.)

For example, John Hagee, the pastor of an evangelical church near here, has an annual "Support Israel" day. They collect money to send Jews back to the Holy Land. This pastor also preaches that the Gospel need not be preached to the Jews, since they have salvation. He says that only one nation has been founded by God: Israel. Thus, we are obliged to support it.

But, is the modern Israel from God? Last time I checked, the Israel of the Old Testament had an anointed King and a Temple with which to absolve sins. The Israel of today has an unpopular prime minister, a nuclear arms program that it denies to have, and free clause to shoot anyone who disagrees with their policy. Is this the same Israel?

Here is an example of where an Israeli soldier shot and killed a Palestinian altar boy from the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. [url="http://www.amenusa.org/isr20.htm"]http://www.amenusa.org/isr20.htm[/url]


When I recall St. Stephen, perhaps it IS the same, after all.

[RandomProddy]

Well, I'm not one of them.

Speaking of which, How do I get my group changed to "Non-Catholics" ?

[foundsheep]

Thats some real food for thought.

[Archbishop 10-K]

Speaking of which, what is the official Catholic position on racis- I mean, Zionism right now?

[Ellenita]

I think it's connected to the idea of the 'second coming' and end time beliefs. If I remember rightly there is a belief that says this will only occur when Israel has been established and the Jewish peoples returned to Jerusalem. However it may be something which is more common in the protestant churches in the US since the US is traditionally more pro Israel than other countries such as the UK for example.


[quote]But, is the modern Israel from God? [/quote]

Interestingly many fundamentalist Jewish sects, predominately Hasidim, were totally opposed to the creation of the state of Israel when it was first formed by the international community. They believed since it came into being through the votes of nations that it had been a secular creation and that only God could truely restore Israel.

[MorphRC]

They support Israel because they believe these Jews are the descendants of Abraham, not even 70% are even semitic! There european, german, scan, bosnian, british! They support becoz they think that a third temple has to be rebuild before Christ's coming, so if they hurry up, support Israel, get the temple built Christ will come.

[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_36.htm"]PRESENT-DAY JUDAISM IS NOT OLD TESTAMENT JUDAISM: David Goldstein LL.D[/url]

[url="http://www.catholicapologetics.net/apolo_37.htm"]Christians Are NOT Gentiles: by David Goldstein LL.D, "The designation of Christians as "Gentiles" is an offense, though not so intended by non-Jewish writers and speakers."[/url]

Also. Jerusalem belonged to Judah, not Israel, so technically with ancient borders the arabs who live in Palestine own it, not the Jews, since they live in the Ancient Israel part not Judah.

[ironmonk]

I support Israel.

Every Muslim in that part of the world wants them dead, because they're Jews.

Palestinian terrorist have been blowing up innocent Jewish children for dozens of years. The Palestinian leaders back these acts.

I personally think that the Palestinians should be booted out - [b]If [/b]they can't keep the peace, then they need to be removed. (I know very well what the Pope has said, and I agree with the Pope, please pay attention to the "IF" above. - this is for those who wish to attack on this point.)

Some years ago, a few of the Arab countries got together and were going to attack Israel. Israel wiped the forces out.

What has to do with why prots are pro-Israel is not because of the second coming, but because it's right.

Saying that it's ethnic cleansing is taking it to far. It has nothing to do with them being Palestinians, it has to with the many Palestinians are constantly starting violence, that the violence is backed by their leadership.

[quote]free clause to shoot anyone who disagrees with their policy[/quote]

Give me a break!

The death IS NOT Israel's fault...it's the muslim Palestinian militiamen's fault.

It is sad that the boy was hit and killed, but place blame where blame is due. If Palestinian Muslims would stop the terrorist bombings and keep the peace then the death of the boy would never have happened.


Talk about your propaganda bias... [url="http://www.amenusa.org/"]http://www.amenusa.org/[/url] Not very up on journalistic integrity... as with most of liberal media.


Israel has been taking garbage from that entire region all my life. I'm 31 now. I remember when I was seven watching the news and seeing the horrors that they have had to put up with.


Rule #1: If the leftists are against it, then it's probably the right way to be. Listen to all sides and get the facts.

The leftists are against Israel, just like they are against the Church, and against Bush.... they are bias in their story telling... they leave major facts out... they cannot be trusted.

Israel has a clause to defend itself and stop those who would kill innocent lives. I remember the malitov cocktails hurled at guards and innocent people. I remember seeing the dead bodies from the Palestinian suicide bombers... I remember how Arafat promotes terrorism... I remember seeing parents of innocent children crying on their knees because their only child is dead for wanting to eat at a restaurant.

God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited June 21, 2004 by ironmonk

[Paladin D]

I agree with what [b]Ironmonk[/b] said. Israel isn't perfect of course, but I support them.

[MorphRC]

I dont know why you give your land away. Christ said you christians are the true heirs of the Abrahamic Covenant now. That aint Jewish land, thy abandoned God, theyve done it before, but now theyve done it for over 2000yrs.

Their are no such people as the palestinians either, and there is no trace of 'Palestinian' genes to the Phillistines as they say, especially since everyone in Palestine is ARAB, and the Phillistines werent Semitic!.

So they're both liars and theives. Let em kill each other, no one is gonna solve this, let the strong win and the weak lose. Worked in the past, good chance it will work now.

[Hananiah]

Israel was founded on a lie. "A land without a people for a people without a land." But the land wasn't without a people. There were hundreds of thousands of Arabs living there who got kicked off their land in the face of an onslaught of immigrants. That having been said, Israel is here to stay and it is just logistically impossible to reverse every injustice that has ever been done (think of every white American moving back to Europe so the Indians could have the whole continent to themselves again). But still, Israel needs to cease its expansionist program. They may have slightly higher moral ground than the Palestinians, but not by much. They do not deserve the massive amount of aid which we give them. We need to tell Sharon to dismantle the illegal settlments, withdraw his forces from Palestinian lands, and pay reparations to all the people whose houses he has bulldozed, or else the dollars will end.

[Crusader_4]

To me i am neither for Israel (altho i do think they handle the situation better then Palestine) nor for Palestine i think its a very difficult situation i forget the author who said this but he wrote "the road to Beirut" i think pullitzer prize winner he said: "Peace will only be possible when both the israelis and palestinans love their sons more then they hate each other"...and i think thats true.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Hananiah' date='Jun 21 2004, 01:56 PM'] Israel was founded on a lie. "A land without a people for a people without a land." But the land wasn't without a people. There were hundreds of thousands of Arabs living there who got kicked off their land in the face of an onslaught of immigrants. That having been said, Israel is here to stay and it is just logistically impossible to reverse every injustice that has ever been done (think of every white American moving back to Europe so the Indians could have the whole continent to themselves again). But still, Israel needs to cease its expansionist program. They may have slightly higher moral ground than the Palestinians, but not by much. They do not deserve the massive amount of aid which we give them. We need to tell Sharon to dismantle the illegal settlments, withdraw his forces from Palestinian lands, and pay reparations to all the people whose houses he has bulldozed, or else the dollars will end. [/quote]
Errrrrrrrrrrrr Arabs werent even known to be around before the 6th century. And even the 'Arabs' mentioned in the Bible arent the same line as todays, but a assimilation of semitic and non-semitic peoples. The Canaanites inhabited 'Israel' they werent arab or semitic. So your wrong. sry

[Crusader_4]

If the palestinains were i think really serious about achieving their rights the way the want there are far better productive ways look to MLK jr and Gandhi altho not the same situation i do not see how the same principles could not work there. If only people would put down the guns.

[Archbishop 10-K]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 20 2004, 11:02 PM'] Errrrrrrrrrrrr Arabs werent even known to be around before the 6th century. And even the 'Arabs' mentioned in the Bible arent the same line as todays, but a assimilation of semitic and non-semitic peoples. The Canaanites inhabited 'Israel' they werent arab or semitic. So your wrong. sry [/quote]
Same arguement you could use with "Jews." The difference is that one was kicked out in 1948 because of post-WWII Zionist pressures.


The point of the thread, though, is how Zionism is relevant in Catholicism/Christianity. Should we Catholics support it? Or is the real Israel only meant to exist when it's real Messiah and King returns?

[Crusader_4]

If the Holy See recognizes the state..then i do! simple as that...should we support it... should we hold back from any nation that needs help? i think support but support caituosly like with anything in regards to nationalism. Its not the same israel as before and i think as long as we recgonize it as that thats the important point.