Canceling World Youth Day

[Guest]

I was listing to Patrick Madrid the other night on Immaculate Heart Radio. He was making very strong points on reasons to cancel World Youth Day because of the threat of a terrorist attack. ISIS says they will attack the Pope and it's not a matter of if but when. Some of the callers disagreed but I agree with Patrick. I would not send my kids over there right now.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Guest

[Luigi]

Would you end them to Dallas? Or Baton Rouge? Or Chicago? Or Miami? Or San Bernardino? Or Aurora? Or Sandyhook? 

 

Besides, you don't have children. So it's one of those "If we had some ham, we could have some have and eggs... if we had some eggs!" situations.You're not sending your non-existent children to World Youth Day. Good plan!

[PhuturePriest]

Since we're dealing in theoretical planes, if I were scheduled to go, I would still go. It may be because I live in a sheltered part of America free of pretty much any Islamic people, and there's not a lot of violence, and of course that I am young and by my nature feel nothing can touch me, but I would not let the Islamic State threat stop me from seeing the Pope and worshiping God with him.

It may be pertinent that one of my best friends is going, and clearly I don't want him to die. However, he is not afraid of any threat, and I do not believe the threat is big enough to really worry about. I pray and hope (as I'm sure you do) that I am right in that estimation.

21 minutes ago, Luigi said:

Would you end them to Dallas? Or Baton Rouge? Or Chicago? Or Miami? Or San Bernardino? Or Aurora? Or Sandyhook? 

 

Besides, you don't have children. So it's one of those "If we had some ham, we could have some have and eggs... if we had some eggs!" situations.You're not sending your non-existent children to World Youth Day. Good plan!

I'm going to downtown Dallas, no less, and I'm the whitest white man from Whiteland, particularly in action and disposition. My spiritual director told me when he saw the news his first thought was "Oh no, Miles' mom is never going to let him go to seminary now."

I am very much of the mind of another apologist by the name of Patrick, whose surname is Coffin. He wrote on Madrid's Facebook post that cancelling World Youth Day would be a very big win for the Islamic State.

If I were to put my opinion in one concise, brilliant quote, it would be the following from every Catholic's favorite Anglican. Just insert "Islamic State" when appropriate:

"In one way we think a great deal too much of the atomic bomb. "How are we to live in an atomic age?" I am tempted to reply: "Why, as you would have lived in the sixteenth century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would have lived in a Viking age when raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat any night; or indeed, as you are already living in an age of cancer, an age of syphilis, an age of paralysis, an age of air raids, an age of railway accidents, an age of motor accidents."

In other words, do not let us begin by exaggerating the novelty of our situation. Believe me, dear sir or madam, you and all whom you love were already sentenced to death before the atomic bomb was invented: and quite a high percentage of us were going to die in unpleasant ways. We had, indeed, one very great advantage over our ancestors - anaesthetics; but we have that still. It is perfectly ridiculous to go about whimpering and drawing long faces because the scientists have added one more chance of painful and premature death to a world which already bristled with such chances and in which death itself was not a chance at all, but a certainty.

This is the first point to be made: and the first action to be taken is to pull ourselves together. If we are all going to be destroyed by an atomic bomb, let that bomb when it comes find us doing sensible and human things - praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts - not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about bombs. They may break our bodies (a microbe can do that) but they need not dominate our minds." C. S. Lewis

[DominicanHeart]

What I don't understand is that when the Pope was here in America, it was the perfect chance for ISIS to attack and they didn't. I was surprised he made it through, then again, security was unbelievable.

[veritasluxmea]

This is a tough question to answer. On the one hand, there's no denying WYD is a target. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that we should just carry on with WYD like there's not a problem; our God values life and we do need to be prudent. The CS Lewis quote doesn't support passively walking into danger. On the other hand, even with the recent attacks in other countries, Poland's security is pretty tight. They have been planning for this for over two years. I think there is a chance any violence can be prevented. 

Whatever you think should be done, at this point WYD isn't going to be cancelled. So, I'm still going. One of my friends who was planning to travel with me cancelled a few months ago because she didn't want to risk it. I've thought about doing the same, I have a lot to live for, and I don't think my family could recover from my death. I'm going to go anyways. Be careful, stick with my group, and be aware. 

[DominicanHeart]

But it's a shame if they cancelled it for the people who paid a lot of money to go and for those who are already there 

[Guest]

On 7/18/2016 at 2:07 AM, PhuturePriest said:

and I do not believe the threat is big enough to really worry about. I pray and hope (as I'm sure you do) that I am right in that estimation.

 

Yes I pray and hope with my entire being you're correct.

[Socrates]

I think if events such as WYD are canceled on account of the terrorist threat, the terrorists have already won.

This doesn't mean, though, that the threat should be lightly ignored, and precautions not taken.

Whether or not to attend is a prudential decision.

[beatitude]

World Youth Day encourages people to take time for prayer and draws them into a deeper relationship with Christ, which is especially needed in this year of mercy and in the face of so much violence and hurt in the world. Cancelling a religious event because of mass murder would be like cancelling medical services because there are too many unwell people about.

If Pope Francis were to pull out of WYD, what then? Should he lock himself in a bulletproof box and never go anywhere in case someone attacks him? There is a difference between being prudent and being paralysed by fear.

Looking at the situation pragmatically, the risk of anything happening is actually pretty low. My academic specialism is humanitarian and conflict response and a colleague in my department has done some interesting research that found risk tends to be perceived very differently and sometimes overestimated by people living at physical distance from the situation. This certainly matches up with my own experience of living and working in conflict zones. Again, of course we should be prudent, but that means looking at statistics and environment in a level-headed way, and on that basis, going to Krakow for WYD is hardly like parachuting into Raqqa on an adventure sports holiday.

[Gabriela]

beatitude can testify that, in Israel, bombings can be expected every day, everywhere, and people still go about their regular lives. Remember the Iraq War? When Saddam Hussein started launching SCUDs at Tel Aviv and Israelis got photographed wearing gas masks in cafes and nightclubs?

Those people know how to live. You live until you die.

[Guest]

"Friends, don't confuse prudence with fear. Don't confuse trust with credulity. And don't confuse courage with recklessness. ISIS terrorists don't "win" when people are terrorized. That's a fallacious argument. They win (in their own eyes) when they kill people. And they have announced repeatedly that killing the Pope is at the top of their hit list (cruxnow.com/church/2015/03/02/vatican-security-chief-says-isis-threat-to-pope-is-real) I realize most of you don't agree with me and, in some cases, don't seem to even see the point I'm making by suggesting that the Church consider postponing or even cancelling WYD in light of the extreme terrorism threat in Europe. That's ok. We can all agree that we should trust in God and pray for the safety of the Holy Father, the WYD pilgrims, and the Polish people." - Patrick Madrid 

ROME — While acknowledging that ISIS represents a real threat to Pope Francis and the Vatican, the commander of the Vatican gendarmes says security services have no knowledge of a planned attack.

 

“The threat exists. This is what has emerged from my conversations with Italian and foreign colleagues,” said Domenico Giani, inspector general of the Corpo della Gendarmeria, the police and security service for the Vatican City State.

 

“At the moment, I can say that we know of no plan for an attack against the Vatican or the Holy Father,” Giani said.

 

The comments came in an interview with Giani in the March edition of the Italian magazine Polizia Moderna, an official publication of Italy’s state police.

 

The Italian government went on high alertlast week after threats from the Islamic State called Italy “the nation signed with the blood of the cross.”

 

The video threat, released with images of 21 Coptic Christians from Egypt who were beheaded this month, warned that Islamic State forces were “south of Rome,” in Libya. At its closest point, Libya is little more than 100 miles from the Italian islands of Sicily and Sardinia.

 

This comes four months after the Islamic State’s propaganda magazine Dabiq ran a cover photo of the militant group’s flag flying above the obelisk in St. Peter’s Square in the Vatican with the headline: “The failed crusade.”

 

In the interview, Giani also said that the collaboration between the Vatican and Muslim countries around the world is good, and that these sources give him “valuable information” on ISIS.

 

Muslim countries also send “declarations of esteem and admiration for the Holy Father,” Giani said. “I can say that today, Islam regards and respects the Holy Father as the world’s most influential moral authority.”

 

Referring to the pope’s attitude regarding the threats against him, Giani said that Francis has no intention of changing the style of his pontificate, which he said is founded on proximity between the pope and the people.

 

“Even as pope,” Giani said, “he’s still a priest who doesn’t want to lose the contact with his flock. It’s us, those in charge of his safety, are the ones that have to help him, not the other way around.”

 

Francis’ lack of concern for his safety is not new.

 

While serving as the archbishop of Buenos Aires in 2009, the Argentinian government once asked Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio to wear a bulletproof vest in response to anonymous reports that a local union leader was planning the prelate’s assassination.

 

Considering it uncomfortable, and preferring to trust in God’s protection, the future pope wore it only once and then gave it to a friend.

 

The pope has referred to his own safety on various occasions, most recently during the plane ride from Sri Lanka to the Philippines last January, when he told the journalists traveling with him that he has a “healthy dose of obliviousness” about his own safety.

 

As for the safety of the faithful who attend one of his events, the pontiff said, “I worry about it, truly.”

 

Giani said the pope is well aware of the threat he faces, but is mostly concerned for the faithful.

 

“The Vatican is a place tens of thousands of people pass through every day, between visits to the Basilica, the Museums, and the Audiences. They need to feel relaxed and safe,” Giani said.

 

Talking about the most dangerous moment of his 16 years serving the Vatican’s gendarmerie, nine of which as a commandeer, Giani pointed to the period after a speech by Benedict XVI in Regensburg, Germany, in December 2006.

 

“[It was] an intervention that reread today seems prophetic for the denunciation of the degradation of some extremist Islam, which [back] then generated protests and very strong threats against the pope,” he said.

 

In Regensburg, Benedict XVI quoted an obscure 14th-century dialogue between a long-forgotten Byzantine Christian emperor and a Persian scholar, in which the emperor associates Muhammad with violence.

 

Giani also said that the 130 police officers who safeguard the Vatican aren’t enough.

 

“Given the risks that we face, there should be more of us,” he said. But, he added, there are budget constraints and an austerity plan in the Vatican.

 

When questioned about the profiles of a candidate for the male-only position of Vatican Gendarme, Giani mentioned being Catholic and loving the Church, standing at least 5’8”, and being a high school graduate. Having served in the military isn’t required, Giani said, but is an advantage.

 

 

"Given that the two World Youth Day events that I've been to have been a total and complete mess organizationally with little or no security, I'd shut it down so fast that if you blink you miss it.  At both events I were at, they were not even checking tickets.  You show up, you go it, get as close to the stage as possible.  No bag checks, no metal detectors, nothing.  This is a recipe for disaster." - Dana Christensen

Edited July 20, 2016 by Guest

[Julie]

I'm going to WYD this year, and I am absolutely not afraid for my safety. Many different countries (including the US) are sending police/security to help with the event- they want their citizens to be safe! Yes, you don't need tickets for the events. In general, registered pilgrims only make up about 1/3 (or less) of the total number of WYD pilgrims. But that's the nature of the event- it's meant to be open to whoever wishes to come. Even though that entails some risk, I think it's worth it.

If there IS a terrorist attack, and they kill people specifically because we are Catholic and on a Catholic pilgrimage- you know what? I think that being killed in the midst of public prayer, BECAUSE of that prayer, is a pretty darn good way to go. (Obviously, it would be best if nobody's killed)

[Ash Wednesday]

I agree with Socrates. If I had plans to attend WYD, I would go. The early Christians did not live in fear of whatever persecution or terrorism existed in their lives.

Take precautions and invoke the protection of Our Lady.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Josh said:

"Friends, don't confuse prudence with fear. Don't confuse trust with credulity. And don't confuse courage with recklessness. ISIS terrorists don't "win" when people are terrorized. That's a fallacious argument. They win (in their own eyes) when they kill people. ........(balance of Josh's post has been edited out by me)............

Fair comment.

Edited July 20, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Papist]

There are many reasons parents will decide to not allow their child to go.  Terror threat is now very real, and should be included in the decision making.  Regardless, I would not allow my teenage child to go to another country w/o me or my wife.