Confession Invalid And Sacrilige

[Guest]

So I'm thinking this may apply to me. I Confessed my grave/mortal sins but I left out a detail about the sin. This has happened in multiple past Confessions. The Priests didn't ask for further information but I didn't freely give it either. I've been reading online and I've seen that if you confess murder your confession is invalid if you don't mention it's your sister. Because it makes it worse. Is this true? So I should go back to Confession and tell the Priest the part I left out? Do I have to try to remember the amount of times I ever did this to be forgiven of all the past times this has happened? Do I have to remember the exact number of times I committed the sins again without giving the missing details?

Edited July 7, 2016 by Guest

[Gabriela]

12 hours ago, Josh said:

So I'm thinking this may apply to me. I Confessed my grave/mortal sins but I left out a detail about the sin. This has happened in multiple past Confessions. The Priests didn't ask for further information but I didn't freely give it either. I've been reading online and I've seen that if you confess murder your confession is invalid if you don't mention it's your sister. Because it makes it worse. Is this true? So I should go back to Confession and tell the Priest the part I left out? Do I have to try to remember the amount of times I ever did this to be forgiven of all the past times this has happened? Do I have to remember the exact number of times I committed the sins again without giving the missing details?

So far as I am aware, murdering your sister is no worse than murdering a stranger. Also, to my knowledge, if you forget to mention a sin or a detail of a sin, the sin is still forgiven, but you should mention whatever you forgot next time you go to confession. The absolution is not invalidated by your having forgotten.

Counting sins, I have been told, is only important for mortal sins, and should not be obsessed over. If you can easily remember how many times a mortal sin was committed, then do so and state the number. If you can't, estimate. That's what I did in my general confession right before my conversion and God hasn't struck me down yet for estimating wrongly.

Josh, it sounds to me like you're struggling with some scrupulosity here, brother. What do you think?

[truthfinder]

8 hours ago, Gabriela said:

So far as I am aware, murdering your sister is no worse than murdering a stranger. Also, to my knowledge, if you forget to mention a sin or a detail of a sin, the sin is still forgiven, but you should mention whatever you forgot next time you go to confession. The absolution is not invalidated by your having forgotten.

 

Oddly enough, I was reading some old (old) catechisms and examinations of conscience today.  And they definitely said that if you killed someone you would have to say the relationship.  In killing, traditional morality has usually made a difference between killing a stranger (and the motivations therein) versus patricide/fratricide. 

[Peace]

22 hours ago, Josh said:

So I'm thinking this may apply to me. I Confessed my grave/mortal sins but I left out a detail about the sin. This has happened in multiple past Confessions. The Priests didn't ask for further information but I didn't freely give it either. I've been reading online and I've seen that if you confess murder your confession is invalid if you don't mention it's your sister. Because it makes it worse. Is this true? So I should go back to Confession and tell the Priest the part I left out? Do I have to try to remember the amount of times I ever did this to be forgiven of all the past times this has happened? Do I have to remember the exact number of times I committed the sins again without giving the missing details?

I keep it vague but confess the sins that I believe I have committed. Something along the lines of "I committed the sin of fornication 863 times since my last confession two weeks ago."

Usually I get off the hook with that. But if the priest asks for more information, I answer his questions truthfully.

I dunno if we really have to go into more detail beyond that, unless the priest asks us for more information.

I had always wondered though.  If you sleep with a prostitute, how many sins should you be confessing?  Is that fornication plus the additional sin of paying money for it?

If you sleep with your girlfriend and use a condom, do you have to confess fornication, plus an additional sin of using a condom?

These are all hypothetical by the way. It has already been firmly established here that Peace is a saint among saints among saints . . .

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Gabriela said:

So far as I am aware, murdering your sister is no worse than murdering a stranger. Also, to my knowledge, if you forget to mention a sin or a detail of a sin, the sin is still forgiven, but you should mention whatever you forgot next time you go to confession. The absolution is not invalidated by your having forgotten.

Josh, it sounds to me like you're struggling with some scrupulosity here, brother. What do you think?

Hi Gabriela. Yeah I thought it would be the same too but from what I was reading on Catholic Answers they were saying the relationship makes it worse. The thing is I didn't forget I just didn't offer the additional information. I was prepared to but it didn't come up. I just Confessed what the sin was and wasn't asked additional information. I actually was asked additional information one time and I gave it. But now I'm wondering if I'm supposed to offer it without being asked or I can just say "I confess murder" and that's good enough.

Just now, truthfinder said:

Oddly enough, I was reading some old (old) catechisms and examinations of conscience today.  And they definitely said that if you killed someone you would have to say the relationship.  In killing, traditional morality has usually made a difference between killing a stranger (and the motivations therein) versus patricide/fratricide. 

So does that apply today as well? Or has it changed in newer Catechisms?

Just now, Peace said:

I had always wondered though.  If you sleep with a prostitute, how many sins should you be confessing?  Is that fornication plus the additional sin of paying money for it?

If you sleep with your girlfriend and use a condom, do you have to confess fornication, plus an additional sin of using a condom?

 

What's up Peace. Yeah I try to be vague as well most of the time. If I'm asked then I freely give more info..............This is what I'm wondering as well. For the record these aren't the specific sins I confessed but this sums up my question.

[Gabriela]

24 minutes ago, Josh said:

Hi Gabriela. Yeah I thought it would be the same too but from what I was reading on Catholic Answers they were saying the relationship makes it worse. The thing is I didn't forget I just didn't offer the additional information. I was prepared to but it didn't come up. I just Confessed what the sin was and wasn't asked additional information. I actually was asked additional information one time and I gave it. But now I'm wondering if I'm supposed to offer it without being asked or I can just say "I confess murder" and that's good enough.

So does that apply today as well? Or has it changed in newer Catechisms?

What's up Peace. Yeah I try to be vague as well most of the time. If I'm asked then I freely give more info..............This is what I'm wondering as well. For the record these aren't the specific sins I confessed but this sums up my question.

I used to habitually confess that I had uncharitable thoughts about other Christians. When it was non-Christians, it was just "I had uncharitable thoughts about others". My confessor noticed the difference, so he asked whether I thought it was worse to have uncharitable thoughts about Christians than about non-Christians. I said yeah, cuz it's a violation of the unity of the Body of Christ. He said no, you're called to love everyone, so there's no difference.

I asked a theologian about it, and he said the priest is right, provided that I don't have uncharitable thoughts about Christians with the deliberate intent of causing division in the Body of Christ. If I did do that deliberately, then that's another sin, but if not, then it's all the same uncharitable thoughts, and I ought to beaver dam well be loving everybody. Dammit.

So you see why I assumed it makes no difference about murder. You're called to not murder anybody. Period.

Now, assuming you're not actually confessing murder, but something less grave, you decide whether my confessor's/theologian's logic applies, or whether that of the old catechisms does. In either case, though, your absolution is not invalidated by your having forgotten to mention the detail. 99% of the time I'm in confession, the priest NEVER asks for details about my sins, and he doesn't seem particularly eager for me to elaborate on them of my own free will either. I list them, he absolves me, and I go.

Maybe I've got bad confessors, but generally, they just don't seem to care.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Gabriela

[Guest]

I didn't forget though I intentionally left out the detail. So say the example Peace gave. Say I confess fornication but leave out its with a prostitute. Am I still absolved?

[Gabriela]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

I didn't forget though I intentionally left out the detail. So say the example Peace gave. Say I confess fornication but leave out its with a prostitute. Am I still absolved?

That's trickier, and I don't know for sure. I believe that you are, because (I'm assuming) you left out (hypothetically, I know) that it was with a prostitute out of shame. Shame is good, because it means you're contrite (usually!). Still, I would mention it the next time in confession, just to clear things up. Remember you're talking to God in the confessional, not the priest, and he already knows it was a prostitute. If you're worried about the priest knowing, go to some priest who'll have no idea who you are by your voice. I always confess in a different parish from the one I attend for Mass, for this very reason. I'm much less verklemmt about laying it all out there if I know the priest doesn't know me from Adam.

@Nihil Obstat: Do you know for sure whether the absolution is rendered invalid by the deliberate omission of an important detail?

[Nihil Obstat]

I believe so, yes. Defect of matter, if it is a substantive detail which was intentionally withheld.

[AveMariaPurissima]

3 hours ago, truthfinder said:

Oddly enough, I was reading some old (old) catechisms and examinations of conscience today.  And they definitely said that if you killed someone you would have to say the relationship.  In killing, traditional morality has usually made a difference between killing a stranger (and the motivations therein) versus patricide/fratricide. 

This is what I was taught too.

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

 

So does that apply today as well? Or has it changed in newer Catechisms?

 

Well, Josh, they just don't make catechisms like this anymore, they're just too doctrinal and unmerciful 

The relevant section from the current CCC is:

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: "All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly."⁵⁴

When Christ's faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, "for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know."⁵⁵

Does the information who neglected to state actually affect the severity of the sin? Did you actively withhold it out of shame? Or was it because at the moment of confessing you were preoccupied with confessing your sins? At this point, it's just best to go to confession and leave it in the hands of your confessor, and because I think scruples might be involved, do whatever he tells you.

[LittleWaySoul]

It honestly depends on what you mean by "detail." That can make the difference between scrupulosity and intentionally withholding something important from the priest in the confessional. There's no need to tell us your sin, but it can't hurt to go to confession again, tell the priest you left such-and-such out last confession, and ask whether you should have said it the first time. The fact that you're wondering about it shows that you're not sure whether it was wrong or not to leave it out, so asking for clarification can only help you. If it *was* wrong of you to leave it out, then you'll be forgiven for it! If it *wasn't* wrong of you to leave it out, then be at peace and know for certain going forward! Hope this helps.  

[LittleWaySoul]

16 minutes ago, LittleWaySoul said:

It honestly depends on what you mean by "detail." That can make the difference between scrupulosity and intentionally withholding something important from the priest in the confessional. There's no need to tell us your sin, but it can't hurt to go to confession again, tell the priest you left such-and-such out last confession, and ask whether you should have said it the first time. The fact that you're wondering about it shows that you're not sure whether it was wrong or not to leave it out, so asking for clarification can only help you. If it *was* wrong of you to leave it out, then you'll be forgiven for it! If it *wasn't* wrong of you to leave it out, then be at peace and know for certain going forward! Hope this helps.  

I just remembered this, so here's a personal semi-related anecdote-

I was in a situation this past spring where I was wondering about a certain sin that I had committed a couple of years prior. I was tormented about it, trying to analyze whether it was truly a mortal sin or not. I was terrified that it WAS and that I had spent the past two years in a state of mortal sin without really realizing it. I went back and forth about how to explain this whole situation to the priest in confession, but when I got there, I decided to simply say that, "I did _____ a couple years ago and I'm not sure if I confessed it or not." I left it at that, trusting that regardless of whether I was in a state of mortal sin the past few years or not, God loved me and forgave me in that moment. I was able to move forward from there at peace. I literally forgot all about this situation until just now, if that gives you any indication of how quickly it shifted from an anxiety-inducing burden to a seemingly inconsequential blip in my journey with Christ.

Trust ardently in God's love and mercy. He understands that we don't always get everything perfectly right the first time, and He is merciful. He also knows our hearts and sees when we're sincerely trying to be good, but may have flubbed something along the way. That's why Confession is such a gift; it's so simple. If you're afraid that you did wrong, simply tell Him through His representative, and He will either forgive you or let you know that you did nothing wrong the first time.