Why can some Catholics be such hypocrites?

[Gabriela]

Like others, Aragon, I'm sorry that happened to you. It was wrong of that guy.

The good news is, he still has opportunity to realize what a judgmental jerk he was, and what an open, honest guy you are. I can understand how, for someone who's lived a sheltered life, discovering that one is sitting at table with a man with SSA can be jarring. If it's the first time that happened to him, he probably just didn't know how to respond, so he walked away. I do that when I'm caught really off guard, to prevent me from doing things that are worse. But that says more about his life than it does yours.

And it means he now has time to think about how he responded, and how he ought to respond in future. At least, that's what I always do when I've walked away. If you come across him again, showing him that you understand (or are trying, at least), and take no offense, and love him in spite of his misunderstanding and judgment of you—doing that can help this guy see how wrong he was, and how you're actually being the better Christian in this situation.

I'll pray that you find the strength to do that, and that he find the humility to recognize his error, and that you both learn to love each other as the brothers in Christ that you are.  

 

And btw: If we can't vent on Phatmass, God help us!

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

On 7/3/2016 at 11:02 AM, Aragon said:

Hi all, I am sorry to use this forum to vent but I don't really know who else I could tell in my real life who would understand this situation. If any of you remember from my previous posts I experience same sex attraction and returned to the Church this year. My country is currently holding their elections and last night I was out having drinks with a friend from church, his friend (also from our church) and a secular friend of mine.

We were talking about the election and I mentioned I cast my vote for the more conservative party and my secular friend (who knows I am Catholic but is kind of oblivious to what all that means) said "how could you vote for x? You're gay!" My church friend knows this and is okay with it, but the other guy from church didn't. It was awkward for a bit and the conversation moved on but after fifteen minutes the guy I don't know from church left kind of suddenly. This morning I was asking my friend why he left early and it turns out he was uncomfortable being around me because of my sexual attractions and (quoting my friend who was quoting this other guy) "I'd prefer not to spend my Saturday night in that type of company".

I know that this one person's behaviour isn't a reflection on the entire Church, but I'm just feeling pretty lousy at the moment and would appreciate your prayers.

 

 

Hypocrisy perhaps stems from a lack of catechisis, and a lack of understanding of holy scripture and sacred tradition or even the desire to investigate these. But also Jesus says that there will be wolves in sheeps clothing and goats. And to add also that the whole world is full of hypocrites, nothing new, and i fear perhaps the number has increased drastically of these within Holy Mother Church due to pagan, atheist and agnostic influence on Gods children from Television, Moving Pictures, The Media, Documentaries and the Music industry, we are in the desert of Sin worshiping a whole host of Golden calves (idols), many to varying degrees have chosen the Kingdom of this world over the Kingdom of Heaven. Just my opinion and i could be wrong.

We perhaps need to gather far more often in Jesus name, as God is Love and we can not truly Love properly without God, and perhaps the idols and sin is not necessarily the major problem though of course still problematic but the problem is the lack of Love.

 

Onward Christian souls.

God is Good, God is Love.

Jesus iz LORD!

[Anomaly]

Because everyone is hypocritical at times.  Catholics and others with principles happen to have identified standards that make it easier to find examples of hypocrisy.  If you don't really stand up for anything, or have preferences, you can't be hypocritical.  It's a dilemma  for Catholics to be kind and tolerant on one hand, but not be approving  or seem to be condoning or encouraging in the other, when it comes to sexual behaviors, perceived or actually taking place.  Since you're Catholic too, than count this as one of the 7x70 times to forgive hypocrisy.  

[franciscanheart]

I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you. You are so loved. Nothing about you is disgusting or wrong; you are who you are, and it seems to me, you're pretty great. Do not allow the ignorance of one man to lead you to doubt your dignity, or your worthiness. You are worthy. You are enough.

Pray for him, that he may come to see that those different from him need not be avoided or despised. He left because he did not truly know you, or understand what it means to be homosexual.

He did not run from you because you are who you are; he ran from you because he could not see who you are.

 

I pray the peace of Christ overwhelms you today. Much love and many hugs from Texas.

Edited July 5, 2016 by franciscanheart

[Guest]

Yep, we Catholics are only people too - and to me a secular rationalisation.   "I am only human - or he/she is only human" .....often heard.  It can be a reason, but no excuse.  I think if I am going to claim Catholicism and don't live up to the Gospel and The Faith nor perhaps think I really have to do so, because I am only a person and human too, I am doing more damage to The Church and The Gospel than almost anything else.  I might have thousands of excuses or attempts at excuses for my failures - some even valid perhaps affecting my personal moral disposition.............. but that is not going to affect (ever in play) cause and effect..........in fact my failures (absolutely independent of my motivations, dispositions and excuses) becomes the cause of the effect, whatever it might be.

Even some Catholics (consciously or even unconsciously) claim a higher moral standard and behaviour - and so it has seeped into Catholic and also secular cultural consciousness and unconsciousness that we claim to be and are higher morally than anyone else and that we think that our behaviour is also.  Rather, Catholicism is not a "club for saints but a hospital for sinners".  What needs to happen is to engage in the struggle to overturn the damage done by conscious or unconscious internalised thinking that we are indeed a club for saints.  I think Pope Francis sights this well and is trying very hard to communicate it...........but first one has to listen to the whole man - and hear him.  We need to have ears that can hear: "Listen, you that have ears to hear" (Matthew Ch11)

8 hours ago, franciscanheart said:

 

I pray the peace of Christ overwhelms you today. Much love and many hugs from Texas

............and Australia..

I hope, @Aragon, and my prayer is that your "pretty lousy" feelings are passing - although I can well empathise at why you were feeling as you were. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Credo in Deum]

I've never liked the phrase "I'm only human" when it comes to a reason for our imperfection, since human beings were never intended by God to be imperfect. Whenever I think of the phrase "I'm only human" I think of our Blessed Mother who was the perfect example of humanity made in the image of God.  Sin is always a lessening of our humanity. A forfeiting of our dignity. 

[Ice_nine]

5 hours ago, Credo in Deum said:

I've never liked the phrase "I'm only human" when it comes to a reason for our imperfection, since human beings were never intended by God to be imperfect.

But we are so . . . 

[Credo in Deum]

17 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

But we are so . . . 

We are fallen/corrupted human beings. There is a difference. The corruption indicates we are not what we were meant to be.  Saying "I'm only human" is like saying "I was meant to be corrupted" which is not the case. You are meant to be sinless, virtuous, and whole.  This is what it means to be human. 

[LittleWaySoul]

On 5 luglio 2016 at 0:30 PM, Anomaly said:

Because everyone is hypocritical at times.  Catholics and others with principles happen to have identified standards that make it easier to find examples of hypocrisy.  If you don't really stand up for anything, or have preferences, you can't be hypocritical.  It's a dilemma  for Catholics to be kind and tolerant on one hand, but not be approving  or seem to be condoning or encouraging in the other, when it comes to sexual behaviors, perceived or actually taking place.  

Wow, this is a really good point. I've never thought of it this way before. Thanks for saying this. 

You're in my prayers, @Aragon! I'm really sorry that happened to you.

[Ice_nine]

1 hour ago, Credo in Deum said:

We are fallen/corrupted human beings. There is a difference. The corruption indicates we are not what we were meant to be.  Saying "I'm only human" is like saying "I was meant to be corrupted" which is not the case. You are meant to be sinless, virtuous, and whole.  This is what it means to be human. 

Splitting hairs

 

[Peace]

2 hours ago, Credo in Deum said:

We are fallen/corrupted human beings. There is a difference. The corruption indicates we are not what we were meant to be.  Saying "I'm only human" is like saying "I was meant to be corrupted" which is not the case. You are meant to be sinless, virtuous, and whole.  This is what it means to be human. 

 

I think you are reading just a bit too much into it. But that's OK. You are only human.

[Credo in Deum]

2 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

Splitting hairs

 

Sure.

[Norseman82]

On Saturday, July 02, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Aragon said:

Hi all, I am sorry to use this forum to vent but I don't really know who else I could tell in my real life who would understand this situation. If any of you remember from my previous posts I experience same sex attraction and returned to the Church this year. My country is currently holding their elections and last night I was out having drinks with a friend from church, his friend (also from our church) and a secular friend of mine.

We were talking about the election and I mentioned I cast my vote for the more conservative party and my secular friend (who knows I am Catholic but is kind of oblivious to what all that means) said "how could you vote for x? You're gay!" My church friend knows this and is okay with it, but the other guy from church didn't. It was awkward for a bit and the conversation moved on but after fifteen minutes the guy I don't know from church left kind of suddenly. This morning I was asking my friend why he left early and it turns out he was uncomfortable being around me because of my sexual attractions and (quoting my friend who was quoting this other guy) "I'd prefer not to spend my Saturday night in that type of company".

I know that this one person's behaviour isn't a reflection on the entire Church, but I'm just feeling pretty lousy at the moment and would appreciate your prayers.

 

 

The friend of the friend and the one who outed you were clueless at best or rude at worst.  You need better drinking buddies, plus be more discreet/prudent regarding whom you confide your stuggles to.

Based on your username and the fact that you just had elections, I presume you are in Spain?  Part of the behavior may be cultural and inspired by a sense of machismo reinforced.  Part of it could also be that he thinks of you as an occasion of sin to be avoided.  Maybe he thinks that you are an "activist" who will try to promote the "gay agenda".  Either way, you are going to have buckle down, grow a thick skin, and face the fact that there are people who, until they get to know you, will be uncomfortable around gay people. You are not the first person who has faced this, and you will not be the last.  Remember that even St. Paul, after his conversion experience, was sent to Arabia for three years because the Christian community did not trust him.

[Guest]

On ‎6‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 2:00 AM, Anomaly said:

Because everyone is hypocritical at times.  Catholics and others with principles happen to have identified standards that make it easier to find examples of hypocrisy.  If you don't really stand up for anything, or have preferences, you can't be hypocritical.  It's a dilemma  for Catholics to be kind and tolerant on one hand, but not be approving  or seem to be condoning or encouraging in the other, when it comes to sexual behaviors, perceived or actually taking place.  Since you're Catholic too, than count this as one of the 7x70 times to forgive hypocrisy.  

Insightful response, excellent - thank you.

[dominicansoul]

Why would you care if this guy wasn't even a friend?  I feel like everybody in our society has become so sensitive to other people's words attitudes opinions etc.. And have knee jerk reactions to it.  I've met people I thought were good Catholics who showed disdain toward me for no reason at all.  My response?  Meeeeeh.  I guess I've lived through racism, abuse, anti religious bigotry, being passed over for jobs and positions because I'm not shapely and attractive,  being looked down upon because I'm a woman, etc. that I've grown strong and pretty immune to the ass hole ness of others.  My advice?  Don't let other people's attitudes change your good spirit.  Learn to let that poo slide off your back and try not to dwell on it so much.  Say a prayer for him and move on.  But most especially don't make yourself out to be a victim.  I know that's popular these days, but us Catholics are not victims to anyone's idiocy unless we give others that power to hurt us.