Entering a community with a lot of old sisters

[NadaTeTurbe]

So, most of the communities I'm discerning with/I'm interested in have a very high average age. One did not have a novice in the last decade, other only had vocations from asian countries, most of the sisters are more than 60 years old. Now, I don't want it to stop me from discerning with these communities. I even find this good. I've visited young communities, and did not feel comfortable at all - I felt like I was in college or high school. I'm more myself when I'm with older people. 

However, I'm worried about it. What if the community close and I'm the last sister ? While I find too much young people to be a pressure, too much old sisters can feel a bit lonely. 

Did someone entered a community such as this ? How did you overcome your fear ? What do you think about it ? 

[Sponsa-Christi]

A few thoughts...

- Sometimes, all it takes is one young person to join an older community before more younger vocations start entering. It is possible that if you entered an older community, more people your age and younger might be able to envision religious life in that community as a possibility for them, too.

- I think it's important to remember that nothing is ever certain for anyone in this life. Even communities with mostly young members can sometimes fall apart. Of course, some choices might be more prudent than others based on the information available, but there are very few ultimate guarantees for anyone in anything. Since there are no "absolutely safe" choices in discernment, you might as well go where you feel God is calling you!

- In a worst-case scenario---e.g., you're the youngest by Sister forty years, nobody enters after you, and the community is suppressed---a religious in final vows would never be left totally stranded. If a community really has to close down, part of the canonical arrangements would include provision for any remaining Sisters. This might involve helping remaining Sisters transfer to other communities with a similar charism; helping the remaining Sisters to re-found a new community; or at the very least providing financial support out of the original community's remaining resources. 

[Gabriela]

I have not entered such a community, but I have been warned not to do so. For one, as you say, it is lonely, and the relationship between you and the others could be very off-balance, e.g., you become the "(grand)daughter" of all rather than the sister of all.

That being said, I don't see any way for such communities to recover except by a gradual inching back down of the average age. So, if, say, the average age is 70, then they first admit someone who's 60. Then someone who's 50. Then someone who's 40. Then someone who's 30. And so on. That way, you don't get a 20-year-old living with a bunch of 70-year-olds. You get a spread of ages, and no one feels too far (in age) from everyone else.

At least, that's how I imagine recovery working, but in reality, I think those communities just die out. Taking a lot of international vocations is typically the death knell, because those vocations are expensive in terms of visa application fees and whatnot. I generally interpret an influx of new vocations exclusively from overseas as a sign that a community is just trying to stay alive. Sooner or later, the money's gonna run out, and/or there'll be problems keeping the visa-d sisters in the country, and/or local women will look at the house and find it impossible to feel at home there because of all the cultural differences (it shouldn't be like that, but I tend to think it is).

As to what would happen to you if the community closed: It's hard to say, but typically the remaining sisters are transferred to other houses that are doing better. If yours is the last (or only) house of the order, then that's harder, although I imagine some order would take you so you could continue to live the life. I do know of cases where Benedictines have been transferred to other Benedictine houses upon the closure of theirs, as well as a case of one Benedictine sister who chose to go live with some Augustinians.

[NadaTeTurbe]

One community I spoke with was very honest : while they still take new vocations, they would not accept someone less than 30 or 35, because it would be too hard for a very young person to live in the community. 

The thing is - when I think about the communities who have some vocations in France, the list is short. You have charismatic, traditionnalist, or new communities, wich is no. You have "conservative" communities, wich is not the kind of life I feel called to (habit, convent life, etc...), and then other communities that my SD told me about, but none of them felt right, not as much as the "old" one. I'm also discerning secular institute. But, if you "can't" look into older communities, what do you do ? 

I spoke with my SD about it. He said to not worry about communities now, since I've a lot of work to do on other area of my life, and that while worrying about communities VERY old was legit, my other concerns came from "all of these american website with nice pictures of youngs sisters", and while it's not very diplomatic, it's kind of true : before reading phatmass and "all of these american website with nice pcitures of youngs sisters", I never worried about it. I was really focused on my personnal calling and discovering religious life in its diversity and keeping an open mind. 

[Spem in alium]

I am more or less in a similar situation. I am the first entrant in my country in decades. The sisters nearest to me in age are in their mid-late 30s (I live with one of them). My formator is in her 40s. The majority of sisters I live with are 60+. While this has taught me so much (about myself, and about how to interact with and respect others), it has been difficult being the sole entrant for several reasons (which I won't go into here, feel free to PM me if you want to know more).

Here, at least, the orders that are promoted are younger and more visible, and vibrant (we are vibrant, I would say, but are hidden and not really promoted), so it's natural that women who want to enter consecrated life would look there first. I was actually questioned why I wasn't entering with an order like this, but with one that no one really knew about. It's a shame, because the majority of religious here are older unhabited women who are not promoted much at all, so they easily become "unappealing". 

The fears you talk about are very real and I think they are things you need to consider when entering. As has been mentioned, congregations do make provisions for sisters in this situation. My province is very small (we have 25 sisters) and so it's a concern for all of us -- what will happen to us as personnel dwindle. 

[Totally Franciscan]

I entered a Carmelite monastery when I was 28.  All the other fifteen sisters were at least twenty years older than I, most much more so.  I can say I actually never gave the age difference a thought.  I was one of them, and they treated me as a sister, not a grand daughter.  There was much wisdom to learn from these older sisters, and I loved each and every one.  They were an example to me of how to live out the vows of poverty, chastity, and especially obedience.  They were amazing!  Unfortunately, the bishop suppressed the order.  Those in solemn vows were given the choice of returning to lay life with family members or going to other communities.  Those too old to enter another community or those with no family were placed in a Catholic nursing home, and the diocese paid all their expenses until death.  

[Gabriela]

Nada, ultimately, what matters is where you feel God is calling you. If you feel it's one of the "old" communities, then that's where you go. He'll work out the rest.

I mean, you can ask questions like this just to see what others have experienced, what advice they have, but in the end, God's call is the bottom line.

You know that.  

Edited July 2, 2016 by Gabriela

[Nunsuch]

In the US, there is an organization called "Giving Voice," which is for younger sisters, allowing them to connect across congregational lines. I don't know if here are similar groups in Europe, but you could contact them and ask.... They hold a gathering every year, at which candidates and novices are welcome, and also retreats. I have known a number of women who have been involved over the years, including some of the founders (I think it originally was called "Fertile Felds"). In any event, here is their website: 

https://giving-voice.org/

 

[Sister Leticia]

17 hours ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

One community I spoke with was very honest : while they still take new vocations, they would not accept someone less than 30 or 35, because it would be too hard for a very young person to live in the community. 

The thing is - when I think about the communities who have some vocations in France, the list is short. You have charismatic, traditionnalist, or new communities, wich is no. You have "conservative" communities, wich is not the kind of life I feel called to (habit, convent life, etc...), and then other communities that my SD told me about, but none of them felt right, not as much as the "old" one. I'm also discerning secular institute. But, if you "can't" look into older communities, what do you do ? 

I spoke with my SD about it. He said to not worry about communities now, since I've a lot of work to do on other area of my life, and that while worrying about communities VERY old was legit, my other concerns came from "all of these american website with nice pictures of youngs sisters", and while it's not very diplomatic, it's kind of true : before reading phatmass and "all of these american website with nice pcitures of youngs sisters", I never worried about it. I was really focused on my personnal calling and discovering religious life in its diversity and keeping an open mind. 

Nada - I don't know which communities you have looked at or not, and whether the looking is online or through personal contact. So, I don't know whether you looked at my congregation (Religious of the Sacred Heart - RSCJ) - we're not charismatic, traditionalist, conservative or new! Our sisters in France also have vocations, usually one or two new entrants each year. However, if you only looked at their website you'd be forgiven for not realising this! The French sisters are very protective of those in initial formation, very discreet. For example, in their newsletter they only put a short announcement that someone has entered, and they don't put photos of them on their website. Personally, I think they're a bit too protective, especially if nobody knows they have vocations - so if you looked at their website and saw no signs of new life I'd be genuinely interested to know.

I've just looked at the French website and couldn't see any mention of their two novices, for example. But I used the search facility and typed words like "novice" and "engagement" and found lots of articles! I also typed "premiers voeux" and found various news items, including the first vows of Sandra 2 years ago http://rscj.com/notre-presence/en-france-belgique-nederland/l-actualite/article/celebration-des-premiers-voeux-de (featuring a video of photos!)

And here are some temoignages from 4 of their younger sisters http://rscj.com/devenir-religieuse-du-sacre-coeur/la-formation/temoignages/

If you'd like to know more feel free to PM me.

Anyway, it's possible there are other congregations with similar concerns and policies around privacy, which have the unfortunate side-effect of giving the impression of ageing.

I would also add that if the orders you've looked at only have ageing communities in France with missions in the developing world (the only source of their vocations) then yes, you're right to ask these questions about them and yourself. But it's possible they have communities and vocations in other European countries and a policy of referring prospective vocations there, especially if the enquirer speaks other languages or the culture is similar. 

But as Gabriela said, ultimately the choice is God's - your task is to work out what that is and embrace it!

[Pax17]

There's the story of Mother Veronica and the Poor Clares of Lerma, Spain:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/spanish_cloistered_nuns_see_surge_in_vocations/

[NadaTeTurbe]

Spem, I hoped you would answer. I'll PM you. Reading your journey is really an inspiration for me, thank you for sharing it. 
 

Nunsuch : In France, it's the CORREF who handdle that. Since we don't have the LCWR/CMSWR divide, congregation of all way of life are used to work together with their young vocations  I know that the CORREF organize meetings of young religious by region two times a year, and there's a national meeting of youngs religious every few years. I love reading about it. 

Sister, before judging if a community have vocations or not, I wait to speak with the sisters and ask them, because internet is not very used in France ! The Little Sisters of the Poor don't even have a website. And posting about postulants and novice on the internet is very foreign. some communities do it - many traditionnalist such as the Little Sisters of the Consolation or the Adorers of the Royal Heart, but the majority don't do it - even the young and vibrant communities. It's not in our culture, we're not really into communication. Also, postulant and novice, you never know if they're going to stay, you don't want to put them under pressure. Anyway, when I say that (some of) the communities I like are ageing in France, it's because of first-hand contact. 

I know a little your community. I'm not really into ignatian spirituality, even if, honestly, I just don't understand it ! I also know about the Cenacle sisters - they are ignatian too, the have vocations and are very nice. I have a life of St Madeleine Sophie Barrat waiting in my library  What are your apostolate ? Only teaching or more ? 

Pax, I knew this community. 10% of all of the novices sisters in Spain are part of it ! A family member is fond of Mother Veronica. 

It would be so much easier if God's will was like Hogwart : . " Here's a letter. You're going to enter an active community. Here's a sorting hat, it's going to choose your community. Congratulation, you're a Daughter of Charity !" Anyway, I'm lucky to have a good SD. These times, he can't stop speaking about the female branch of his congregation, and how they have vocations, are dynamics, etc... I think he's trying to tell me something  

[sr.christinaosf]

On 7/1/2016 at 10:20 PM, Gabriela said:

Nada, ultimately, what matters is where you feel God is calling you. If you feel it's one of the "old" communities, then that's where you go. He'll work out the rest.

I mean, you can ask questions like this just to see what others have experienced, what advice they have, but in the end, God's call is the bottom line.

You know that.  

I normally don't use the expression in writing, but...Amen to that!  

When we enter religious life, it's a response to a call, so in choosing a community (and maybe taking a risk with the age) it all must be done with attentiveness to the Holy Spirit.

[Nunsuch]

Nada, yes, differences between LCWR and CMSWR communities in the US are real, although some communities belong to both (Mother Clare Millea, who conducted the Visitation is an example--she is an Apostle of the Sacred Heart of Jesus), depending on who is in leadership, while others go back and forth. The Philadelphia IHMs, for instance, who were among the founders of CMSWR, now belong to LCWR (for the record, they--like some other LCWR communities, DO wear habits most of the time). I do not know of many who have gone from LCWR to CMSWR in a permanent way, but there may be some.

 I do know that Giving Voice is open to ALL younger sisters, but that communities in CMSWR may no encourage or permit their sisters to be involved. I am glad that there are comparable groups in other countries.

The community in which I am an Associate is an LCWR congregation, with one or two women entering each year, although the majority of sisters are older.... 

I should also mention that other opportunities for younger sisters to get to know each other include intercommunity novitiates. Some are by charism (Mercy, Dominican, etc.), while others are geographic, and some include at least some classes/activities with both women and men participating.

[Thijs]

We have to take in mind the fidelity of the sisters of the congregation as well. The non-negotiable teachings of the Church should be non-negotiable. If their formators is teaching the other way around and some members are vocal against what they Church teaches, then leave.
Their are some faithful communities that needed younger vocations. I do pray you may consider them

[NadaTeTurbe]

42 minutes ago, Thijs said:

We have to take in mind the fidelity of the sisters of the congregation as well. The non-negotiable teachings of the Church should be non-negotiable. If their formators is teaching the other way around and some members are vocal against what they Church teaches, then leave.
Their are some faithful communities that needed younger vocations. I do pray you may consider them

WHere did I say I was considering communities with sisters against non-negotiable teachings ?? I didn't even give the name, you can't presume that.