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Iftar (muslim ceremony) in a church ?


NadaTeTurbe

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NadaTeTurbe

So, Molenbeek is a part of Bruxelle (Belgium), and it's well known to be a good place for terrorist : it's where the Bataclan killers planned their shooting and were hidden for weeks. 

And the catholic church of Molenbeek welcomed an Iftar, it's a kind of big dinner at the end of the day, during the fast of the month of ramadan. 200 people ate in the church, listened to the priest and an iman, and to two muslims choir and one christian choir, all of it in the church, a hous of prayer ! I'm not fond of polemic usually, but this is very chocking. 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7SEmki6Tn4&feature=youtu.be

 

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Revelation 13:11 ►

Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.

 

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The False Church will be worldly, ecumenical, and global. It will be a loose federation of churches and religions, forming some type of global association. A world parliament of Churches. It will be emptied of all Divine content, it will be the mystical body of the anti-christ. The Mystical Body on earth today will have its Judas Iscariot, and he will be the false prophet. Satan will recruit him from our Bishops.'--Venerable Fulton J. Sheen

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I do not think this is appropriate. Catholic churches are consecrated to the worship of God and the preaching of the gospel. It is concerning that a church would be used for the rituals of a religion that does not worship Jesus Christ as God incarnate and for the preaching of doctrine other than that of Christ. 

Then there are other concerns. Churches should be treated as places of reverence. Food and loud conversation or not suitable in the house of God.

The priest is a young African man in a full cassock. That's both surprising and sad. I hope that they at least removed the Blessed Sacrament for the occasion. 

Edited by Aragon
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Once the Blessed Sacrament is removed and other specific accouterments, it's essentially a building.  The Catholic Church has a long history of using Churches for other things, such as temporary refuge and hospitals.  

Its noteable that Islam does not believe Jesus is God because they can't get beyond the "insult" of God being crucified.  Catholics specifically celebrate The crucifixion as a free will gift of God, not an insult that God did not choose or allow. 

A very powerful example of a fundamentally different theology.  Even a secularist should be impressed.   Why look for insult and affront when it isn't necessarily there?  Isn't the constant being "theologically offended" the fuel of the constant religious conflict?

It wasn't a religious ritual, it was a customary meal.   Kind of like having people over for Easter dinner.   Having bread and wine in a Church is also heavily symbolic.   I wonder how many of those Muslims and Christians could now on some fanatic Islamist's Fatwa "hit list"?

 

Edited by Anomaly
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KnightofChrist
15 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Once the Blessed Sacrament is removed and other specific accouterments, it's essentially a building.  The Catholic Church has a long history of using Churches for other things, such as temporary refuge and hospitals.  

A Church even with the Blessed Sacrament removed is a sacred place and remains so until the act of deconsecration. 

The Catholic Church does not have a long history of allowing mixed worship of religions that reject Christ as Divine or worship other gods. 

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And people wonder why France is becoming militantly secularist while the various diest followers find offense in each other and destroy any peace or tolerance that may have been a part of their theology.  Purify it all in fanatical flame and blood, starting with their own heretics and apostates.   Nice. 

Edited by Anomaly
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KnightofChrist
23 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

And people wonder why France is becoming militantly secularist while the various diest followers find offense in each other and destroy any peace or tolerance that may have been a part of their theology.  Purify it all in fanatical flame and blood, starting with their own heretics and apostates.   Nice. 

How will inter-religious worship services reduce the rise of militant secularism? I doubt that the hatred for "deist followers" will cease even if they all worship their "sky gods" together.

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Credo in Deum
58 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

And people wonder why France is becoming militantly secularist while the various diest followers find offense in each other and destroy any peace or tolerance that may have been a part of their theology.  Purify it all in fanatical flame and blood, starting with their own heretics and apostates.   Nice. 

Ah, so if we're not all holding hands singing kumbaya as if all paths lead to the same destination, then we're hating each other.  Got it.

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27 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

How will inter-religious worship services reduce the rise of militant secularism? I doubt that the hatred for "deist followers" will cease even if they all worship their "sky gods" together.

A shared meal and a few prayers isn't a religious ceremony in the opinion of the attendees.  More like recognizing their shared humanity.  The haters are the fanatical diests who discern divine butt hurt over a peaceful and cooperative gathering to share a meal.  Secularists don't have a hatred for the "diest followers", we are sick and tired of the fanatic hatred for each other mucking things up for everyone.  

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KnightofChrist
Just now, Anomaly said:

A shared meal and a few prayers isn't a religious ceremony in the opinion of the attendees.  More like recognizing their shared humanity.  The haters are the fanatical diests who discern divine butt hurt over a peaceful and cooperative gathering to share a meal.  Secularists don't have a hatred for the "diest followers", we are sick and tired of the fanatic hatred for each other mucking things up for everyone.  

I've watched the video, it was a religious ceremony. Maybe not as well structured as a Mass. But it has all the elements required to be a religious ceremony. Religious leaders taking the stage, speaking and preaching, prayers, singing, a banquet, etc in a sacred place.

You're just using this as opportunity to talk down to those of faith, and take an axe to that chip on your shoulder. You speak in general, or in a broad brush and hypocritical terms. I'm really not interested in that at all. 

 

 

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KnightofChrist
22 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Sadly, you've made my point. 

It would not be surprising that any disagreement with you on the point you made would make your point for you.

You may not have hatred in your heart, but at times you do seem bitter and angry towards people of faith.

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2 hours ago, Anomaly said:

A shared meal and a few prayers isn't a religious ceremony in the opinion of the attendees.  More like recognizing their shared humanity.  The haters are the fanatical diests who discern divine butt hurt over a peaceful and cooperative gathering to share a meal.  Secularists don't have a hatred for the "diest followers", we are sick and tired of the fanatic hatred for each other mucking things up for everyone.  

There are other ways to do ecumenicism without compromising the integrity of the Catholic religion. For example. you could invite Muslims to a celebration of a holy day or national holiday in which you can have the shared cultural elements of song and food and dance. You could even keep the food kosher/halal out of respect for your neighbors who can't eat the Easter ham. But to participate in the ceremony of another religion, I'm not down with that. I don't think it's a good thing. I don't think that the homogenization of culture (a natural consequence of globalization?) is a good thing for anyone. Syncreticism (sp?) is just watering both sides down until they become meaningless. As a secularist who thinks that religion is merely a human invention I can see why this doesn't bother you, but for those who see it as indicative of an external reality, we feel differently.

Also don't you mean "theist" instead of "deist"? I think the latter term is for those who believe in a god who created the universe and then took his hands off the wheel i.e. not a personal god.

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NadaTeTurbe
4 hours ago, Anomaly said:

And people wonder why France is becoming militantly secularist while the various diest followers find offense in each other and destroy any peace or tolerance that may have been a part of their theology.  Purify it all in fanatical flame and blood, starting with their own heretics and apostates.   Nice. 

France is becoming militantly secularist ? France was more secularist one century and a half ago, when religious schools were forbidden, and religious vows forbidden (sisters and priest had to marry or leave the country). We're more tolerant, now, even if the laws are still extrem. Also, France and Belgium aren't the same thing... We don't have the same state of mind at all when it comes to religion, and specially Islam. Also, iftar is not a shared meal, it is a religious ceremony and meals. I

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