The Ultimate Super-sized XXL Marriage Thread Plus

[Credo in Deum]

6 hours ago, little2add said:

selfish and a prude, you may be.     if two people decide to get married as opposed to shacking up its a good thing for the couple.    its not about you

if there friends or family then celebrate with them

John the Baptist is not impressed.

[Nihil Obstat]

The Sacred Heart picture is sincere. The thing about encyclicals was a joke. I fully intend to find a beautiful image of the Sacred Heart. The objections I just read are ludicrous.  

[CatherineM]

Nihil-I don't have to tell you that the bottom line in sin is conscience. You have to follow yours. It's not easy being the only person on a race course going the other way. It's a bit like growing up in a family of drinkers or smokers and being the only one who doesn't. Lonely and isolating, but there's something to be said for being able to sleep at night. 

[Maggyie]

On 6/16/2016 at 7:05 PM, CatherineM said:

I just read on Facebook that the Pope said today most marriages are invalid. Something I've said for a long time. 

This statement of his bothers me hugely. I mean, if a pope thought that other sacraments like baptism or ordination were failing on a mass level I suspect there would be more sense of urgency...

[Nihil Obstat]

2 minutes ago, Maggyie said:

This statement of his bothers me hugely. I mean, if a pope thought that other sacraments like baptism or ordination were failing on a mass level I suspect there would be more sense of urgency...

You would not be the only person with that thought.

[Ice_nine]

Nihil's thread prompted this one. I'll try to be as brief as possible, but I feel it's a little bit more complex, and I'm a total wreck about the decision I have to make. Much appreciation to those who read through the whole thing.

A couple years ago my sister, who I am pretty close with, moved in with her boyfriend. Obviously I didn't, and don't, approve. But about zero people ever ask me if I approve of their life decisions. I didn't vocalize this. I'm pretty sure people know where I stand and I just don't like to give my opinion when it's not asked.

When things got serious with my sister and her boyfriend, when there was talk of marriage, my mother (semi-practicing Catholic) asked my sister (a non-practicing Catholic) if she would be married in the church. She said "yes." It came as a great relief to me to know that although she was not practicing now, living in sin, and very much swayed by the tides of the time, that she was open. That she would go through pre-cana and have to learn some things about the church that she forgot or never even knew. And maybe even if she was just going through the motions that it would at least be a start.

Anyhow as things got more serious and they booked a venue (it's a "destination wedding" a few states away), my mother asked her again if she would be married in the church . The answer turned from "yes" to "I don't know" to "we can just get it blessed later." I'm not sure she knows what convalidation is or what that even entails. She knows the church doesn't recognize a civil marriage. I'm not sure if she's aware of all the particulars.

I was hoping to talk to her about it when plans became more concrete. Thing is I'm being treated for anxiety and depression. That kind of zaps me of the energy. And whenever I talk about things personal to me (and faith is THE most personal/important thing to me) I suffer many physical symptoms of panic that make it pretty hard/taxing. So I never really got to talk to her about the marriage thing. She has been very supportive of my mental health treatment.

I think growing up it was always understood we would be the maids of honor at each other's wedding. So when she excitedly asked me (in front of other people) I said "yes." I felt compelled to. My anxiety was particularly bad that day because of other factors. I figured I could be the maid of honor so long as I made it clear my objections to having a civil ceremony without "proper canonical form."

After Nihil's thread I'm not so sure I can participate let alone even attend this wedding. It feels like I'm being torn apart. Sometimes I think "this is not real life. Me not going to my own sister's wedding? It has to be a dream." I really need to talk to a priest but I'm not close with any of them and I don't know the appropriate context to broach the topic with one of them.

It's extremely precarious because she seems like she wants to get married in the church, eventually even if not right now. I don't want to close that door. She hates when religious people seem self-righteous and it very well may come off that way. I am torn. Absolutely torn. Out of my immediate family, 40 or so cousins, my dozen aunts and uncles I think not a single one of them will understand let alone support my decision (still haven't decided yet) to not attend my only sister's wedding. They will all think I'm the biggest ass on the planet, or they will be devastated (which is worse) IMO. I just don't know what to do :/. It's possible she could still have a church wedding but her fiancé seems opposed. I don't know

[Anomaly]

Ice, 

A question before I attempt to give my practical opinion.  Are you currently, or can you easily confide and discuss this matter with both a trustworthy health care professional and a trusted spiritual adviser?   i think there is a practical course of action that would be respectful of your personal health and your spiritual health.   You may need support and advice from both as third parties whose primary loyalty is towards you. 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Anomaly

[little2add]

what about when your sister has children of her own, will you dis them too?  

[Maggyie]

5 minutes ago, little2add said:

what about when your sister has children of her own, will you dis them too?  

It's not about "dissing" her sister!

Ice, I think given the circumstances you've shared it's absolutely possible for you to attend and participate in the wedding. Given her level of openness I think you are justified in doing so for the sake of the gospel. It's a difficult situation but please don't let it tear you up. You can completely do this in good conscience with the intention of encouraging her holiness. Getting married with the intention of getting it blessed by the church is a huge step in the right direction vs shacking up. Especially if she will take a lack of participation the wrong way. The Church doesn't demand we rip relationships up when it is not necessary. In this case it's not necessary. Obviously you should consult your conscience but I can pretty much promise you if you took this matter to the confessional you would be told your actions were entirely justified. 

[Gabriela]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

what about when your sister has children of her own, will you dis them too?  

Why are you so aggressive lately? Ice just poured her heart out about how much this pains her, and you come in and judge her harshly. It's just cruel.

Ice, I think you need to find a priest you trust and talk about this, sooner rather than later, for your own peace of mind. You don't need to find some perfectly appropriate time to discuss it. Email your parish office and tell the secretary you need to meet with the priest about an important personal decision regarding family. That's what priests are there for.

[little2add]

all i'm saying is that you should embrace your sister and wish her well in the spirit of good catholic faith 

not attending would not only hurt feeling, it could damage their relationship.   

 

 

[Gabriela]

32 minutes ago, little2add said:

all i'm saying is that you should embrace your sister and wish her well in the spirit of good catholic faith 

not attending would not only hurt feeling, it could damage their relationship.   

But that's not what you said. You said she's disrespecting her sister and implied, completely without grounds, that she would disrespect her sister's children as well.

There's a legitimate concern here that a faithful Catholic may be seen to approve of something that the Church forbids. It's clear from Ice's OP that she does embrace her sister and wish her well—if she didn't, why would this situation pain her so much? But even if you can't see that clearly in the OP, then you ought, out of Christian charity, to assume that Ice embraces her and wishes her well. The question concerns complicity in sin, which is valid and important and worthy of YOUR respect. If not attending is what the Church demands—and that is what Ice is asking—then it matters little whose feelings it would hurt. We cannot be seen to condone sin. Does attending condone sin? Ice would like to know.

So all I'm saying is: The question is a perfectly valid one, and your response was unkind.

[Credo in Deum]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

what about when your sister has children of her own, will you dis them too?  

Way to live up to your username.

33 minutes ago, little2add said:

all i'm saying is that you should embrace your sister and wish her well in the spirit of good catholic faith 

not attending would not only hurt feeling, it could damage their relationship.   

 

 

Apparently being a Catholic to you means pacifying everyones feelings? Even Jesus stepped on toes, and he warned us that this would happen in our own families! -- Luke 12:53

 

 

 

[Anomaly]

Ice, 

I don't think it's good for you, or is respectful of your relationship with your sister to boycott the wedding.   It will only reflect badly on you, and Catholicism.   But don't hive too much value to my opinion or other internet poster's opinions.   This us something you need to discuss in depth with a priest or religious that can hear a little more of the story.   Maybe your parish priest or someone they can recommend.   I know quite a lot of them, and it's not hard to find one with time to discuss this.    

You also need to discuss this with s mental health counselor.  Someone who can validate and support your decisions.  It's not a simple black and white decision that you just have to tighten up and endure.  Maybe they can help how to approach and discuss this with your sister and then how to deal with her reaction.   

It may not be a good idea to wait too long for things to be in concrete.   By then, your sister may not be able to change plans and actually feel hurt you didn't tell her sooner.  Maybe.  That's what a counselor is for. 

Ultimately you have to respect your principles regarding religion and love for your family, which is also a tenet of Catholicism.  It's mercy and justice.  You also have to value and respect who you are, and acknowledge your strengths and limitations.  You can try to do the best you can and accept yours and others imperfect.  You should get experienced and competent advice.   Don't expect that from Internet personas.  

Edited June 18, 2016 by Anomaly

[McM RSCJ]

I hope you will talk with the medical professional who is treating your anxiety and depression, or to a counselor that person recommends.  And it would be great if you could also talk to a wise pastoral priest or religious.

I hope you will find peace and even joy in standing up for your sister as she marries.  The God Jesus reveals to us in the Gospels does not require us to become "Scourges" in God's name.

 You are asked to be a witness to your sister's wedding, and while you deeply desire that she marry in the Catholic Church, she will be entering into a legal marriage, and you can vouch for that.  This is certainly not "complicity in evil."

This man may well be God's most precious gift to your sister--and your sister, God's most precious gift to him.  

Have you considered reading prayerfully and thoughtfully Amoris Laetitia?  

You may find rich pastoral guidance there and a breadth of understanding both of our human weakness and frailty but always supported and compensated for by the breadth of God's love.

Who knows?   You may also find passages you might want to share, in conversation, with your sister and her fiancé.  After all, if she is asking you to be her Maid of Honor/witness, you may surely ask to talk with them about how they understand what they intend by entering into marriage.

(And we all--i.e. our human community--are better off when the focus of preparation is on the marriage and not just on the ceremony/party.  .  .  .  Right?) 

Edited June 18, 2016 by McM RSCJ