Guest Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McM RSCJ Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Josh, please stop. I think you mean well, but I do not think your posts are in the spirit of the Gospel. Of course Allah is the same God of Jews and Christians. I hope you can find soon some good news in the teachings of Jesus Christ under the inspiration of some wise, pastoral, and learned Catholic teachers. God is Love. And Jesus pleads with us not to judge. Please listen to Pope Francis and welcome his words in your heart. "Mercy IS doctrine." And one who insists "this, not that" is not in communion with the Church. This website, tragically, welcomes a very narrow view of God and of so-called Church teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 2 hours ago, McM RSCJ said: Josh, please stop. I think you mean well, but I do not think your posts are in the spirit of the Gospel. Of course Allah is the same God of Jews and Christians. Wrong. God cannot be divided against Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 43 minutes ago, Socrates said: Wrong. God cannot be divided against Himself. Sure, God cannot be divided against Himself. But why is that relevant? I do not see your point. I do not see how that disproves the assertion that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 4 hours ago, McM RSCJ said: This website, tragically, welcomes a very narrow view of God and of so-called Church teaching. What a rude thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, McM RSCJ said: Josh, please stop. I think you mean well, but I do not think your posts are in the spirit of the Gospel. Of course Allah is the same God of Jews and Christians. Wow people are completely deceived. Just like the Bible said they would be. "Even the elect will be deceived if that were possible." 1 hour ago, Peace said: Sure, God cannot be divided against Himself. But why is that relevant? I do not see your point. I do not see how that disproves the assertion that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Allah is not the God of the Bible. I find it very troubling how many Catholics assert with confidence that he is. Edited June 15, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." This confuses me. If the Catechism is saying that they hold the faith similar to the way alcoholics hold the faith when they ask their higher power to help them at aa meetings then I can accept it. On the other hand if it's saying that Allah (the deity out of the Koran who denies Christ as the Son of God) is the Most High and the Father from the Bible I have big issues. Is the Catechism infallible? Edited June 15, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 4.157 . And because of their saying : We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary , Allah ' s messenger They slew him not nor crucified , but it appeared so unto them ; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof ; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain , 4.158 . But Allah took him up unto Himself . Allah was ever Mighty , wise . O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah,and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (4:171, Yusif Ali) Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (5:575, Yusif Ali) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) ◄2 Corinthians 4:4 ► SATAN, WHO IS THE GOD OF THIS WORLD, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, WHO IS THE EXACT LIKENESS OF GOD. Edited June 15, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Josh said: 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." This confuses me. If the Catechism is saying that they hold the faith similar to the way alcoholics hold the faith when they ask their higher power to help them at aa meetings then I can accept it. On the other hand if it's saying that Allah (the deity out of the Koran who denies Christ as the Son of God) is the Most High and the Father from the Bible I have big issues. Is the Catechism infallible? The person known as Clark Kent and the person known as Superman are the same man. Let's say that Jane is in love with Clark Kent, and Sally is in love with Superman. Jane does not believe that Clark Kent is Superman, and Sally does not believe that Superman is Clark Kent. Are Jane and Sally in love with the same man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Just now, Peace said: The person known as Clark Kent and the person known as Superman are the same man. Let's say that Jane is in love with Clark Kent, and Sally is in love with Superman. Jane does not believe that Clark Kent is Superman, and Sally does not believe that Superman is Clark Kent. Are Jane and Sally in love with the same man? The problem is Allah in the Koran goes directly after Jesus and attacks who Christ claims to be. I included a few examples from the Koran in a previous post. So that alone is enough to conclude that Allah is not God the Father but is Satan the father of lies. Like I said I can see how Muslims hold to the faith if it's the same way my non Catholic brothers and sisters hold to the faith when they seek their Higher Power in aa. But I find it impossible to take the leap that the deity in the Koran named Allah is God the Father from the Bible. And if the Catechism is saying this is the case then it's a big problem for me and my Catholicism. Edited June 15, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Galatians 1:8 But if we or an angel from Heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the on we preached to you let them be accursed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McM RSCJ Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 "For who has known the mind of God and who has been God's Counselor?" No one of us. You are correct that neither the Jewish Scriptures nor the Qu'ran reveal God as Trinitarian. That understanding of God is a distinctive Christian teaching and a mystery central to Christian Faith. But that does not mean Jews and Muslims worship false Gods or different or lesser or harmful gods. You say the belief that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God is deeply problematic for your Catholic faith. I wonder why? And I wonder from whom you learned this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Just now, McM RSCJ said: You say the belief that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God is deeply problematic for your Catholic faith. I wonder why? And I wonder from whom you learned this? Not what I said. Jews worship God the Father. Never said anything about them. I said that the deity presented in the Koran is not God the Father. I'm trying to understand the Catechism and what it's saying. If I understand it correctly it's saying Muslims worship the one true God. And I take that the same way as non Christian alcoholics in aa praying to their Higher Power. So if that's what the Catechism is saying then I'm in agreement and see no problem with it. If it's saying the deity in the Koran is God the Father then I have a problem with it. Edited June 15, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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