Orlando Shooting

[Amppax]

2 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

As Scott Hahn says, it is deeply liturgical. The attempt to make it a prophecy of the end-times came out of necessity for protestants who rejected the liturgy.

Well... You're correct in saying that Dr. Hahn focuses on the liturgical aspects, but he doesn't deny that it also has to do with the end times. It isn't an either/or, it's a both/and. 

[PhuturePriest]

1 hour ago, Amppax said:

Well... You're correct in saying that Dr. Hahn focuses on the liturgical aspects, but he doesn't deny that it also has to do with the end times. It isn't an either/or, it's a both/and. 

True. I realized that while writing that, which is why I said "deeply liturgical", which doesn't exclude other meanings. Obviously you can't really liturgize chapter 12, for instance.

The great Catholic both/and. I really want to buy Bishop Barron's new book on it.

[Nihil Obstat]

Josh, I have an excellent book to recommend for you.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1882972732/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468806640&sr=8-1&pi=QL40&keywords=trial+tribulation+and+triumph&dpPl=1&dpID=21CM5M1PBFL&ref=plSrch

[Guest]

Thanks gonna order this.

[Amppax]

17 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

True. I realized that while writing that, which is why I said "deeply liturgical", which doesn't exclude other meanings. Obviously you can't really liturgize chapter 12, for instance.

The great Catholic both/and. I really want to buy Bishop Barron's new book on it.

I was fortunate enough to get an advanced copy. Though it does mean that I didn't realize the book had come out, and I had no idea what the cover art was until I just looked it up on Amazon. 

 

[McM RSCJ]

Josh, have you studied Church documents on the respect and reverence Catholics ought to have for Islam?

We worship the same One Holy God.

Who--or what Catholic authorities--are telling you differently?

Your posts continue to suggest that not only do you think Islam is Satanic, but that this is Catholic teaching.  It is NOT.  Full stop.

who is feeding you this poison?

[Socrates]

Catholics ought not have respect or reverence for Islam or any other false religion.

The false religion of Islam explicitly denies fundamental central truths of Christ, and much of its spread involved forcibly converting Christians.  The One Holy God is not divided against Himself.

However, we ought to respect Muslim people, just as we should respect all people.  (Yes, there is a difference.)  We should pray for their conversion to Christ.

Sadly, religious indifferentism (look it up) seems to be rampant in the Church today.

[Anomaly]

What kind of response do you think you will get from people if you completely disrespect their religion?  You don't have to agree it's equal or as good as your religion, but you can acknowledge and respect what principles you may share in common, such as respecting people, respecting family, respecting the poor and being charitable.  Worry about what's unacceptable when you can respect each other's as neighbors, not disrespectful enumerated.  Otherwise it's just two hateful idiots throwing disrespect at each other until both are convinced there is no room for a bit of empathy.  

[Socrates]

I didn't say Catholics should needlessly actively disrespect false religions.  (For instance, I think we can all agree that likely no good will come from running around in front of Muslims mocking their "prophet" Mohammed.)  Nor should we deny basic common human decency and shared human values.  This is all part of prudence and respect for persons.

This does not mean Catholics should have actual reverence for the false teachings of Mohammedism itself.  For a believing Christian to give reverence to a religion contrary and opposed to Christian faith is wrong and blasphemous.  (Silly as the whole controversy might be to an atheist.)

I can respect Anomaly as a person without giving reverence to his atheistic ideas.

Again, some of the posts by Catholics here on this topic definitely smack of religious indifferentism.

[PhuturePriest]

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

I didn't say Catholics should needlessly actively disrespect false religions.  (For instance, I think we can all agree that likely no good will come from running around in front of Muslims mocking their "prophet" Mohammed.)  Nor should we deny basic common human decency and shared human values.  This is all part of prudence and respect for persons.

This does not mean Catholics should have actual reverence for the false teachings of Mohammedism itself.  For a believing Christian to give reverence to a religion contrary and opposed to Christian faith is wrong and blasphemous.  (Silly as the whole controversy might be to an atheist.)

I can respect Anomaly as a person without giving reverence to his atheistic ideas.

Again, some of the posts by Catholics here on this topic definitely smack of religious indifferentism.

I appreciate your attempt to make this more balanced. Many (myself definitely included) are susceptible to becoming a little over-eager in the ideals of the times, which currently means trying to foster respect and love among all peoples. This is certainly a good thing in and of itself. However, as you say, a balance must be struck, and it is imperative that we don't make the mistake of reverencing bad ideas in the act of respecting good persons. We should strive to love the person in a holistic way while also objectively viewing their beliefs in light of the Church, lauding that which is good and rejecting that which is bad -- all in charity and respect.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 6/13/2016 at 9:58 AM, vee said:

what if the shooter turned out to be a gay muslim.

Imagine that!

 

[little2add]

What I don't understand is how or why did the  swat team wait 4 hours before going in and ending the  massacre 

I find this strange considering that some of the innocent must have bled to death during the four hour stand off

 

[Anomaly]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

What I don't understand is how or why did the  swat team wait 4 hours before going in and ending the  massacre 

I find this strange considering that some of the innocent must have bled to death during the four hour stand off

 

Listened to a local(Tampa) radio station interviewing a SWAT expert and reading in the paper, this was discussed at great extent.   Omar called into 911 and also told negotiators that he had explosives. They knew there was wounded and others hiding /trapped inside.   They did not want to make him set them off, killing them all.  

Thsnks to a few brave souls that would text what they knew of his location inside, police would go in and help some out.   Eventually they were able to discern he probably did not have explosives and they broke in. They people texting were incredibly brave as Omar would shoot to kill anyone he thought was calling.  

The girl in the bathroom was under people who were wounded or dead and was shot yet again when he was killing wounded or those trying to call.  

The police protocol was to remain a good distance away in case of explosives, but many risked their lives getting people out when they thought they could do it without being seen.   Lots of brave people.  

[little2add]

the swat team has body armor, robots, bomb sniffing detection equipment.  they should not have waited.

[Anomaly]

People trapped in there, hiding in closets and bathrooms didn't have body armor.   A bomb could have killed them all.  Considering police were sneaking in without armor (as verified by victims) I'm pretty sure the concern was for the safety of the citizens, not the officers.