Lady Gaga

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Our Lord did not go easy on him, frankly. In my opinion this is one of the most difficult passages of the Gospel.

He sure as hell went easy on the woman caught in the very act of adultery when all the holier than thou people wanted to stone her to death. This is one of the main reasons I think the Gospels are authentic and really happened. What Jesus did was so unexpected and contrary to what the Old Testament demanded. He didn't allow her to be put to death. He didn't shame her. He didn't make her confess to everyone she was a hoar. He didn't make her swear she would never do it again. He told her he didn't judge her and no one else was worthy to either and to go and sin no more. And that was it. Nothing to demean her one bit or remind her how horrible adultery is. Perhaps Jesus goes easier on women. I have no problem with that. Only God knows if she sinned again. If she's anything like me when I'm forgiven she probably did. I like the points you make Nihil and feel the same way about some of them. I'm not a Lady Gaga fan at all and the whole gay/transgender thing is disgusting to me and I'm sick of hearing about it. I didn't get a fuzzy feeling about this story but at the same time I want to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm hoping she doesn't have some agenda. The picture and quote and response to the Catholic blogger seemed sincere to me. I will say I like her a lot more than the best Catholics of all time who have Catholic ministry's and blogs and bash Pope Francis 24-7 and call him Satan and a faggo**. Give me Lady Gaga over these people every single day. At least she recognizes she's a sinner and doesn't bash the Pope and think she's one of the best Catholics of all time.

4 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I do not disagree, but I also think that we are doing both her and anyone who pays attention to her a grave disservice if we just gloss over the incredible scandal she represents, just because she said something that gives people the warm fuzzies. As I said before, the scandal that she gives and the errors she supports do serious harm both to her own soul, and to other people. 

I agree with this. If she leads people to think homosexual relations are ok and you can be fine with them or engaging in them and still receive the Eucharist. Hopefully that Priest has told her it's not ok. The question is has he?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Just now, Josh said:

He didn't make her confess to everyone she was a hoar. 

*whore

[Guest]

This is part of her quote on Facebook when Prince died a couple weeks earlier...."I tend to believe that when we die our souls hover for at least a moment if not longer before they either rest or are recycled into the consciousness of an already living being or maybe a newborn baby..."

So again Nihil I agree with a lot of what you say. If she supports gay marriage she shouldn't be receiving Communion according to Cannon Law. Also if she believes in reincarnation I think that would prevent her from receiving as well. I'm curious if she actually receives. It's tough to tell from that quote and I do agree it can cause confusion.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Guest

[Era Might]

6 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

We are not so simple as to think that "a rich man" is just some fat cat businessman with a lot of money, are we? This rich man who spoke to Jesus felt a call in his heart as well. Our Lord did not go easy on him, frankly. In my opinion this is one of the most difficult passages of the Gospel.

This is one of my favorite stories in the Gospels, also one of the most paradoxical. I agree it's one of Jesus' "hard sayings" but I think it's a misreading to see it as an upholding of a standard. The Rich Young Man already was a Saint. There was nothing to reproach him about. He was the exact opposite of Lady Gaga, not only was he not scandalous, he was virtuous and respectable. But he wants to know how to enter Heaven, and Jesus says the only way to fit into heaven is to give up everything, even your righteousness and respectability. That's what makes Jesus' saying so hard, I think Jesus did go easy on him, too easy in fact. Jesus said you don't have to do anything to get to Heaven, just give up everything. I don't find Lady Gaga any more scandalous than respectable society with its self-righteous mediocrity and hopes to get to Heaven in a straight orderly line. I think of the preacher in Hawthorne's story The Minister's Black Veil: Lo! on every visage a black veil, he screams. He saw only darkness through his veil...if that's how we choose to see Lady Gaga, it says a lot about the veils we see through.

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then above is a post from April 24, a picture of herself entering Chicago’s Holy Name Cathedral with the following header: “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”

 

Following the Gospel passage, she wrote: “Even the highest powers don’t have it all figured out right away. Gotta leave yourself room to discover something new. Even at the last minute. Don’t forget to love.”

 

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

From that quote I would maybe guess she is referring to the higher power's of the Church and something new would be allowing gay marriage as a Sacrament? 

 

 

Or maybe I'm wrong and it has nothing to do with gay marriage. Perhaps she is referring to herself as a higher power and saying she doesn't have it figured out and she needs God. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

1 hour ago, Era Might said:

This is one of my favorite stories in the Gospels, also one of the most paradoxical. I agree it's one of Jesus' "hard sayings" but I think it's a misreading to see it as an upholding of a standard. The Rich Young Man already was a Saint. There was nothing to reproach him about. He was the exact opposite of Lady Gaga, not only was he not scandalous, he was virtuous and respectable. But he wants to know how to enter Heaven, and Jesus says the only way to fit into heaven is to give up everything, even your righteousness and respectability. That's what makes Jesus' saying so hard, I think Jesus did go easy on him, too easy in fact. Jesus said you don't have to do anything to get to Heaven, just give up everything. I don't find Lady Gaga any more scandalous than respectable society with its self-righteous mediocrity and hopes to get to Heaven in a straight orderly line. I think of the preacher in Hawthorne's story The Minister's Black Veil: Lo! on every visage a black veil, he screams. He saw only darkness through his veil...if that's how we choose to see Lady Gaga, it says a lot about the veils we see through.

Your personal brand of mysticism has lead you far astray.

Ver. 16. Behold one came. St. Luke (xviii. 18.) calls him a prince or lord. Some conjecture this young man came only in a dissembling way, to try or tempt our Saviour, as the Pharisees sometimes did, and without any design to follow his advice; but by all the circumstances related of him, by the evangelists particularly, when St. Mark (Chap. x. 22.) tells us, he went away sorrowful, he seems to have come with sincerity, but without resolution strong enough to leave his worldly goods and possessions. (Witham)

Ver. 17. Why askest thou me concerning good?[4] In the ordinary Greek copies, why dost thou call me good? (Witham) --- One is good, &c. God alone, by his own nature, is essentially, absolutely, and unchangeably good; at the same time, he is the source of all created goodness, as all goodness is a mere emanation from his. The person here addressing our Saviour, appears not to have believed that Christ was God: wherefore our Saviour, to rectify his misconception, tells him that God alone is good, insinuating thereby, that he should believe him to be God, or cease to address him by the title of good. (Tirinus) --- The sense is, that only God is good necessarily, and by his own nature. The Arians bring this place to shew, that Christ is not truly and properly God: but by this way of speaking, Christ does not deny that he is good, even by his nature, and consequently God; but seems to speak in this manner, to make the man know who he was. (Witham)

Ver. 19. St. Jerome thinks his answer was not conformable to truth, or he would not have been sorry when ordered to distribute his goods among the poor.

Ver. 21. If thou wilt be perfect. This shews there is a difference betwixt things that are of precept, and those that are of counsel only, which they aim at, that aspire to the greatest perfection. (Witham) --- Evangelical perfection essentially consists in the perfect observance of God's commandments, which is greatly assisted by embracing not only voluntary poverty, but also the other counsels given to us in the gospels, such as perpetual chastity, and entire obedience. --- Follow me. Thus to follow Christ, is to be without wife and care of children, to have no property, and to live in community; this state of life hath a great reward in heaven. This state, we learn from St. Augustine, the apostles followed; and he himself not only embraced it, but exhorted as many others as he possibly could to embrace it. (St. Augustine, ep. lxxxix, in fine, and in Ps. ciii. conc. 3. post. med.) (Bristow) --- The whole perfection of a Christian life consists in following Christ, by an imitation of his virtues. So that he who possesses poverty and chastity, does not immediately become perfect, but only enters upon the way of perfection, by facilitating his progress to perfection, removing hindrances, and laying aside all care of temporal concerns. (Nicholas of Lyra.) --- In this chapter Jesus Christ delivers the evangelical counsels. In ver. 12, he recommends continency---here he proposes voluntary poverty, and immediately adds that of obedience, follow me. St. Augustine teaches, that the apostles bound themselves by vow to the observance of these three counsels. (De civit. Dei. Book xvii. chap. 4.)

Ver. 22. Sorrowful. I know not how it happens, that when superfluous and earthly things are loved, we are more attached to what we possess in effect than in desire. For, why did this young man depart sad, but because he had great riches? It is one thing not to wish for, and another to part with them, when once we have them. They become incorporated, and, as it were, a part of ourselves, like food; and, when taken, are changed into our own members. No one easily suffers a member of his body to be cut off. (St. Augustine, ep. xxxi. ad Paul.)

Ver. 24. It is easier for a camel,[5] &c. This might be a common saying, to signify any thing impossible, or very hard. Some by a camel, would have to be meant a cable, or ship-rope, but that is differently writ in Greek, and here is commonly understood a true camel. (Witham) --- But nothing is impossible to God.

Ver. 25. They wondered very much. The apostles wondered how any person could be saved, not because all were rich, but because the poor were also included, who had their hearts and affections fixed on riches. (St. Augustine and Nicholas of Lyra.)

Ver. 27. Behold we have left all! What confidence this in Peter! He had been but a fisherman, always poor, living by his industry, and gaining his bread by the sweat of his brow; yet with great confidence he says, we have left all. (St. Jerome) --- For, we are not to consider what he left, but the will with which he left his all. He leaves a great deal, who reserves nothing for himself. It is a great matter to quit all, though the things we leave be very inconsiderable in themselves. Do we not observe with how great affection we love what we already have, and how earnestly we search after what we have not? It is on this account that St. Peter, and his brother, St. Andrew, left much, because they denied themselves even the desire and inclination of possessing any thing. (St. Gregory, on S. Mat. hom. v.) --- Though I have not been rich, I shall not, on that account, receive a less reward; for, the apostles, who have done the same thing with me, were no richer than myself. He therefore leaves all the world, who leaves all he has, and the desire of ever having more. (St. Augustine, ep. lxxxix. ad. Hilar.)

Ver. 28. In the regeneration. Jesus Christ here calls the general resurrection the regeneration, because there will then be a renovation of the human body, and of the whole world. The promise which is here made to the apostles of sitting on thrones at the general judgment, and passing sentence on the 12 tribes of Israel, must not be understood as limited to the apostles, or to the Jews. For St. Paul says, (1 Corinthians vi. 2. and 3,) that not only he, but also many of the Corinthians to whom he was writing, would judge not merely the 12 tribes, but the whole world, and moreover angels themselves. It is the opinion of many of the Fathers, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Gregory, and others, that all apostolical men, i.e. such as, renouncing the goods of this life, adhere to Christ in mind and affection, and by every possible means promote his reign and the propagation of his gospel, will be so far honoured as to sit in judgment with him at the general resurrection. (Tirinus) --- You also shall sit on twelve seats, or thrones, meaning at the general resurrection, when Christ will appear on the throne of his majesty, with his heavenly court, and with his elect, shall condemn the wicked world. (Witham)

Ver. 29. Shall receive a hundred-fold. In St. Mark we read a hundred-fold now in this time, and in the world to come life everlasting. Which hundred-fold is to be understood of the blessings in this life, of interior consolations, of the peace of a good conscience, and in general of spiritual gifts and graces, which are much more valuable than all temporal goods. And besides these spiritual graces in this world, he shall have everlasting glory in the world to come. (Witham) --- Our Saviour does not here lay down a precept of separating from wives; but, as when he before said, he that loseth his life for my sake, shall find it, he did not counsel, much less command us to lay violent hands upon ourselves; so here he teaches us to prefer the duties of piety to every other consideration. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxv.) --- The reward will be a hundred-fold, by the accumulation of spiritual gifts and graces in this life, infinitely superior to all we have left, and the inheritance of life eternal in the next. (Bible de Vence)

 16. And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17. And he said to him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.

18. He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,

19. Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

20. The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21. Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

RABAN; This man had, it may be, heard of the Lord, that only they who were like to little children were worthy to enter into the heavenly kingdom; but desiring to know more certainly, he asks to have it declared to him not in parables, but expressly, by what merits he might attain eternal life. Therefore it is said; And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? 

JEROME; He that asks this question is both young, rich, and proud, and he asks not as one that desires to learn, but as tempting Him. This we can prove by this, that when the Lord had said to him, If you will enter into life, keep the commandments, he further insidiously asks, which are the commandments? as if he could not read them for himself, or as if the Lord could command any thing contrary to them. 

CHRYS; But I for my part, though I deny not that he was a lover of money, because Christ convicts him as such, cannot consider him to have been a hypocrite, because it is unsafe to decide in uncertain cases, and especially in making charges against any. Moreover Mark removes all suspicion of this kind, for he says that he came to Him, and knelt before Him; and that Jesus when He looked on him, loved him. And if he had come to tempt Him, the Evangelist would have signified as much, as he has done in other places. Or if he had said nothing thereof, Christ would not have suffered him to be hid, but would either have convicted him openly, or have covertly suggested it. But He does not this; for it follows, He said to him, Why do you ask me concerning good? 

AUG; This may seem a discrepancy, that Matthew here gives it, Why do you ask me concerning good? whereas Mark and Luke have, Why do you call me good? For this, Why do you ask me concerning good? may seem rather to be referred to his question, What good thing shall I do? for in that he both mentioned good, and asked a question. But this, Good Master, is not yet a question. Either sentence may be understood thus very appropriately to the passage. 

JEROME; But because he had styled Him Good Master, and had not confessed Him as God, or as the Son of God, He tells him, that in comparison of God there is no saint to be called good, of whom it is said, Confess to the Lord, for he is good; and therefore He says, There is one good, that is, God. But that none should suppose that by this the Son of God is excluded from being good, we read in another place, The good Shepherd lays down his life for his sheep. 

AUG; Or, because he sought eternal life, (and eternal life consists in such contemplation in which God is beheld not for punishment, but for everlasting joy,) and knew not with whom he spoke, but thought Him only a Son of Man, therefore He says, Why do you ask me concerning good, calling me in respect of what you see in me, Good Master? This form of the Son of Man shall appear in the judgment, not to the righteous only, but to the wicked, and the very sight shall be to them an evil, and their punishment. But there is a sight of My form, in which I am equal to God. That one God therefore, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is alone good, because none see Him to mourning and sorrow, but only to salvation and true joy. 

JEROME; For Our Savior does not reject this witness to His goodness, but corrected the error of calling Him Good Master apart from God. 

CHRYS; Wherein then was the profit that He answered thus? He leads him by degrees, and teaches him to lay aside false flattery, and rising above the things which are upon earth to cleave to God, to seek things to come, and to know Him that is truly good, the root and source of every good. 

ORIGEN; Christ also answers thus, because of that He said, What good thing shall I do? For when we depart from evil and do good, that which we do is called good by comparison with what other men do. But when compared with absolute good, in the sense in which it is here said, There is one good, our good is not good. But some one may say, that because the Lord knew that the purpose of him who thus asked Him was not even to do such good as man can do, that therefore He said, Why do you ask me concerning good? as much as to say, Why do you ask me concerning good, seeing you are not prepared to do what is good. But after this He says, If you will enter into life, keep the commandments. Where note, that He speaks to him as yet standing without life; for that man is in one sense without life, who is without Him who said, I am the life. Otherwise, every man upon earth may be, not in life itself, but only in its shadow, while he is clad in a body of death. But any man shall enter into life, if he keep himself from dead works, and seek living works. But there are dead words and living words, also dead thoughts and living thoughts, and therefore He says, If you will enter into life, keep the commandments. 

AUG; And He said not, If you desire life eternal; but, If you will enter into life, calling that simply life, which shall be everlasting. Here we should consider how eternal life should be loved, when this miserable and finite life is so loved. 

REMIG; These words prove that the Law gave to such as kept it not only temporal promises, but also life eternal. And because the hearing these things made him thoughtful, He said to him, Which? 

CHRYS; This he said not to tempt Him, but because he supposed that they were other than the commandments of the Law, which should be the means of life to him. 

REMIG; And Jesus, condescending as to a weak one, most graciously set out to him the precepts of the Law; Jesus said, you shall do no murder; and of all these precepts follows the exposition, And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. For the Apostle says, Whoever loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law? But it should be inquired, why the Lord has enumerated only the precepts of the Second Table? Perhaps because this young man was zealous in the love of God, or because love of our neighbor is the step by which we ascend to the love of God. 

ORIGEN; Or perhaps these precepts are enough to introduce one, if I may say so, to the entrance of life; but neither these, nor any like them, are enough to conduct one to the more inward parts of life. But whoever transgresses one of these commandments, shall not even come to the entrance in to life. 

CHRYS; But because all the commandments that the Lord had recounted were contained in the Law, The young man said to him, All these have I kept from my youth up. And did not even rest there, but asked further, What lack I yet? which alone is a mark of his intense desire. 

REMIG; But to those who would be perfect in grace, He shows how they may come to perfection, Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go, and sell all that you have, and give to the poor. Mark the words; He said not, Go, and consume all you have; but Go, and sell; and not some, as did Ananias and Sapphira, but All. And well He added, that you have, for what we have are our lawful possessions. Those therefore that he justly possessed were to be sold; what had been gained unjustly were to be restored to those from whom they had been taken. And He said not, Give to your neighbors, nor to the rich, but to the poor. 

AUG; Nor need it be made a scruple in what monasteries, or to the indigent brethren of what place, any one gives those things that he has, for there is but one commonwealth of all Christians. Therefore wherever any Christian has laid out his goods, in all places alike he shall receive what is necessary for himself, shall receive it of that which is Christ's. 

RABAN; See two kinds of life which we have heard set before men; the Active, to which pertains, You shall not kill, and the rest of the Law; and the Contemplative, to which pertains this, If you will be perfect. The active pertains to the Law, the contemplative to the Gospel; for as the Old Testament went before the New, so good action goes before contemplation. 

AUG; Nor are such only partakers in the kingdom of heaven, who, to the end they may be perfect, sell or part with all that they have; but in these Christian ranks are numbered by reason of a certain communication of their charity a multitude of hired troops; those to whom it shall be said in the end, I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; whom be it far from us to consider excluded from life eternal, as they who obey not the commands of the Gospel. 

JEROME; That Vigilantius asserts that they who retain the use of their property, and from time to time divide their incomes among the poor, do better than they who sell their possessions and lavish them in one act of charity, to him, not I, but God shall make answer, If you will be perfect, Go and sell. That which you so extol, is but the second or third grade; which we indeed admit, only remembering that what is first is to be set before what is third or second. 

PSEUDO-AUG; It is good to distribute with discrimination to the poor; it is better, with resolve of following the Lord, to strip one's self of all at once, and freed from anxiety to suffer want with Christ. 

CHRYS; And because He spoke of riches warning us to strip ourselves of them, He promises to repay things greater, by how much heaven is greater than earth, and therefore He says, And you shall have treasure in heaven. By the word treasure He denotes the abundance and endurance of the reward.

ORIGEN; If every commandment is fulfilled in this one word, you shall love your neighbor as yourself, and if he is perfect who has fulfilled every command, how is it that the Lord said to the young man, If you will be perfect, when he had declared, All these have I kept from my youth up. Perhaps that he says, you shall love your neighbor as yourself, was not said by the Lord, but added by some one, for neither Mark nor Luke have given it in this place. Or otherwise; It is written in the Gospel according to the Hebrews, that, when the Lord said, Go, and sell all that you have, the rich man began to scratch his head, being displeased with the saying. Then the Lord said to him, How do you say, I have kept the Law, and the Prophets, since it is written in the Law, you shall love your neighbor as yourself? For how many of your brethren sons of Abraham, clothed in filth, perish for hunger? your house is full of many good things, and nothing goes out to them. The Lord then, desiring to convict this rich man, says to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell all that you have, and give to the poor; for so it will be seen if you cost indeed love your neighbor as yourself.

But if he is perfect who has all the virtues, how does he become perfect who sells all that he has and gives to the poor? For suppose one to have done this, will he thereby become forthwith free from anger, desire, having every virtue, and abandoning all vice? Perhaps wisdom may suggest, that he that has given his goods to the poor, is aided by their prayers, receiving of their spiritual abundance to his want, and is made in this way perfect, though he may have some human passions. Or thus; He that thus exchanged his riches for poverty, in order that he might become perfect, shall have assistance to become wise in Christ, just, chaste also, and devoid of all passion; but not so as that in the moment when he gave up all his goods, he should forthwith become perfect; but only that from that day forward the contemplation of God will begin to bring him to all virtues. 

Or again, it will pass into a moral exposition, and say, that the possessions of a man are the acts of his mind. Christ then bids a man to sell all his evil possessions, and as it were to give them over to the virtues which should work the same, which were poor in all that is good. For as the peace of the Apostles returns to them again, unless there be a son of peace, so all sins return upon their actors, when one will no longer indulge his evil propensities; and thus there can be no doubt that he will straightway become perfect who in this sense sells all his possessions. It is manifest that he that does these things, has treasure in heaven, and is himself become of heaven; and he will have in heaven treasure of God's glory, and riches in all God's wisdom. Such an one will be able to follow Christ, for he has no evil possession to draw him off from so following. 

JEROME; For many who leave their riches do not therefore follow the Lord; and it is not sufficient for perfection that they despise money, unless they also follow the Savior, that unless having forsaken evil, they also do what is good. For it is easier to contemn the hoard than quit the propensity; therefore it follows, And come and follow me; for he follows the Lord who is his imitator, and who walks in his steps. It follows, And when the young man had heard these words, he went away sorrowful. This is the sorrow that leads to death. And the cause of his sorrow is added, for he had great possessions, thorns, that is, and briars, which choked the holy leaven. 

CHRYS; For they that have little, and they that abound, are not in like measure encumbered. For the acquisition of riches raises a greater flame, and desire is more violently kindled. 

AUG; I know not how, but in the love of worldly superfluities, it is what we have already got, rather than what we desire to get, that most strictly enthrall us. For whence went this young man away sorrowful, but that he had great possessions? It is one thing to lay aside thoughts of further acquisition, and another to strip ourselves of what we have already made our own; one is only rejecting what is not ours, the other is like parting with one of our own limbs. 

ORIGEN; But historically, the young man is to be praised for that he did not kill, did not commit adultery; but is to be blamed for that he sorrowed at Christ's words calling him to perfection. He was young indeed in soul, and therefore leaving Christ, he went his way.

23. Then said Jesus to his disciples, I say to you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24. And again I say to you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26. But Jesus beheld them, and said to them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

GLOSS; The Lord took occasion from this rich man to, hold discourse concerning the covetous; Then said Jesus, to his disciples, I say to you, &c. 

CHRYS; What He spoke was not condemning riches in themselves, but those who were enslaved by them; also encouraging His disciples that being poor they should not be ashamed by reason of their poverty. 

HILARY; To have riches is no sin; but moderation is to be observed in our having. For how shall we communicate to the necessities of the saints, if we have not out of what we may communicate? 

RABAN; But though there be a difference between having and loving riches, yet it is safer neither to have nor to love them. 

REMIG; Whence in Mark the Lord expounding the meaning of this saying, speaks thus, It is hard for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of heaven. They trust in riches, who build all their hopes on them. 

JEROME; Because riches once gained are hard to be despised, He said not it is impossible, but it is hard. Difficulty does not imply the impossibility, but points out the infrequency of the occurrence. 

HILARY; It is a dangerous toil to become rich; and lack of guilt occupied in increasing its wealth has taken upon itself a sore burden; the servant of God gains not the things of the world, clear of the sins of the world. Hence is the difficulty of entering the kingdom of heaven. 

CHRYS; Having said that it was hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven, He now proceeds to show that it is impossible, And again I say to you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. 

JEROME; According to this, no rich man can be saved. But if we read Isaiah, how the: camels of Midian and Ephah came to Jerusalem with gifts and presents, and they who once were crooked and bowed down by the weight of their sins, enter the gates of Jerusalem, we shall see how these camels, to which the rich are likened when they have laid aside the heavy load of sins, and the distortion of their whole bodies, may then enter by that narrow and strait way that leads to life.

PSEUDO-CHRYS; The Gentile souls are likened to the deformed body of the camel, in which is seen the humpback of idolatry; for the knowledge of God is the exaltation of the soul. The needle is the Son of God, the fine point of which is His divinity, and the thicker part what He is according to His incarnation. But it is altogether straight and without turning; and through the womb of His passion, the Gentiles have entered into life eternal. By this needle is sewn the robe of immortality; it is this needle that has sewn the flesh to the spirit, that has joined together the Jews and the Gentiles, and coupled man in friendship with angels. It is easier therefore for the Gentiles to pass through the needle's eye, than for the rich Jews to enter into the kingdom of heaven. For if the Gentiles are with such difficulty withdrawn from the irrational worship of idols, how much more hardly shall the Jews be withdrawn from the reasonable service of God? 

GLOSS; It is explained otherwise; That at Jerusalem there was a certain gate, called, The needle's eye, through which a camel could not pass, but on its bended knees, and after its burden had been taken off; and so the rich should not be able to pass along the narrow way that leads to life, till he had put off the burden of sin, and of riches, that is, by ceasing to love them. 

GREG; Or, by the rich man He intends anyone who is proud, by the camel he denotes the right humility. The camel passed through the needle's eye, when our Redeemer through the narrow way of suffering entered in to the taking upon Him death; for that passion was as a needle which pricked the body with pain. But the camel enters the needle's eye easier than the rich man enters the kingdom of heaven; because if He had not first shown us by His passion the form of His humility, our proud stiffness would never have bent itself to His lowliness. 

CHRYS; The disciples though poor are troubled for the salvation of others, beginning even now to have the bowels of doctors. 

AUG; Whereas the rich are few in comparison of the multitude of the poor, we must suppose that the disciples understood all who wish for riches, as included in the number of the rich. 

CHRYS; This therefore He proceeds to show is the work of God, there needing much grace to guide a man in the midst of riches; But Jesus beheld them, and said to them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. By the word beheld them, the Evangelist conveys that He soothed their troubled soul by His merciful eye. 

REMIG; This must not be so understood as though it were possible for God to cause that the rich, the covetous, the avaricious, and the proud should enter into the kingdom of heaven; but to cause him to be converted, and so enter. 

CHRYS; And this is not said that you should sit supinely, and let alone what may seem impossibilities; but considering the greatness of righteousness, you should strive to enter in with entreaty to God.

 27. Then answered Peter and said to him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed you; what shall we have therefore?

28. And Jesus said to them, Verily I say to you, That you which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29. And everyone that has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundred fold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

ORIGEN; Peter had heard the word of Christ when He said, If you will be perfect, go and sell all that you have. Then he observer! that the young man had departed sorrowful, and considered the difficulty of riches entering into the kingdom of heaven; and thereupon he put this question confidently as one who had achieved no easy matter. For though what he with his brother had left behind them were but little things, yet were they not esteemed as little with God, who considered that out of the fullness of their love they had so forsaken those least things, as they would have forsaken the greatest things if they had had them. So Peter, thinking rather of his will than of the intrinsic value of the sacrifice, asked Him confidently, Behold, we have left all. 

CHRYS; What was this all, O blessed Peter? The reeds, your net, and boat. But this he says, not to call to mind his own magnanimity, but in order to propose the case of the multitude of poor. A poor man might have said, If I have nothing, I cannot become perfect. Peter therefore puts this question that you, poor man, may learn that you are in nothing behind. For he had already received the kingdom of heaven, and therefore secure of what was already there, he now asks for the whole world. And see how carefully he frames his question after Christ's requirements: Christ required two things of a rich man, to give what he had to the poor, and to follow Him; wherefore he adds, and have followed you. 

ORIGEN; It may be said, In all things which the Father revealed to Peter that the Son was, righteousness, sanctification, and the like, in all we have followed Thee. Therefore as a victorious athlete, he now asks what are the prizes of his contest. 

JEROME; Because to forsake is not enough, he adds that which makes perfection, and have followed you. We have done what you commanded us, what reward will you then give us? What shall we have? 

JEROME; He said not only, you who have left all, for this did the philosopher Crates, and many other who have despised riches, but added, and have followed me, which is peculiar to the Apostles and believers. 

HILARY; The disciples had followed Christ in the regeneration, that is, in the layer of baptism, in the sanctification of faith, for this is that regeneration which the Apostles followed, and which the Law could not bestow. 

JEROME; Or it may be constructed thus, you which have followed me, shall in the regeneration sit, &c.; that is, when the dead shall rise from corruption, incorrupt, you also shall sit on thrones of judges, condemning the twelve tribes of Israel, for that they would not believe when you believed. 

AUG; Thus our flesh will be regenerated by incorruption, as our soul also shall be regenerated by faith. 

PSEUDO-CHRYS; For it would come to pass, that in the day of judgment the Jews would allege, Lord, we knew Thee not to be the Son of God when you west in the flesh. For who can discern a treasure buried in the ground, or the sun when obscured by a cloud? The disciples therefore will then answer, We also were men, and peasants, obscure among the multitude, but you priests and scribes; but in us a right will became as it were a lamp of our ignorance, but your evil will became to you a blinding of your science. 

CHRYS; He therefore said not the Gentiles and the whole world, but, the tribes of Israel, because the Apostles and the Jews had been brought up under the same laws and customs. So that when the Jews should plead that they could not believe in Christ, because they were hindered by their Law, the disciples will be brought forward, who had the same Law. But some one may say, What great thing is this, when both the Ninevites and the Queen of the South will have the same? He had before and will again promise them the highest rewards; and even now He tacitly conveys something of the same. For of those others He had only said, that they shall sit, and shall condemn this generation; but He now says to the disciples, When the Son of Man shall sit, you also shall sit. 

It is clear then that they shall reign with Him, and shall share in that glory; for it is such honor and glory unspeakable that He intends by the thrones. How is this promise fulfilled? Shall Judas sit among them? By no means. For the law was as thus ordained of the Lord by Jeremiah the Prophet, I will speak it upon my people, and upon the kingdom, that I may build, and plant it. But if it do evil in my sight, then will I repent me of the good which I said I would do to them, as much as to say, If they make themselves unworthy of the promise, I will no more perform that I promised. But Judas showed himself unworthy of the preeminence; wherefore when He gave this promise to His disciples, He did not promise it absolutely, for He said not, you shall sit, but, you which have followed me shall sit; at once excluding Judas, and admitting such as should be in after time; for neither was the promise confined to them only, nor yet did it include Judas who had already shown himself undeserving. 

HILARY; Their following Christ in thus exalting the Apostles to twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, associated them in the glory of the twelve Patriarchs. 

AUG; From this passage we learn that Jesus will judge with His disciples; whence He says in another place to the Jews, Therefore shall they be your judges. And whereas He says they shall sit upon twelve thrones, we need not think that twelve persons only shall judge with Him. For by the number twelve is signified the whole number of those that shall judge; and that because the number seven which generally represents completeness contains the two numbers four and three, which multiplied together make twelve. For if it were not so, as Matthias was elected into the place of the traitor Judas, the Apostle Paul who labored more than they all should not have place to sit to judge; but he shows that he with the rest of the saints pertains to the number of judges, when he says, Know you not that we shall judge Angels? 

ID; In the number of judges therefore are included all that have left their all and followed the Lord. 

GREG; For whosoever, urged by the spur of divine love, shall forsake what he possesses here, shall without doubt gain there the eminence of judicial authority; and shall appear as judge with the Judge, for that he now in consideration of the judgment chastens himself by a voluntary poverty. 

AUG; The same holds good, by reason of this number twelve, of those that are to be judged. For when it is said, Judging the twelve tribes, yet is not the tribe of Levi, which is the thirteenth, to be exempt from being judged by them; nor shall they judge this nation alone, and not also other nations. 

PSEUDO-CHRYS; Or, by that, In the regeneration, Christ designs the period of Christianity that should be after His ascension, in which men were regenerated by baptism; and that is the time in which Christ sate on the throne of His glory. And hereby you may see that He spoke not of the time of the judgment to come, but of the calling of the Gentiles, in that He said not, When the Son of Man shall come sitting upon the throne of his majesty; but only, In the regeneration when he shall sit, which was from the time that the Gentiles began to believe on Christ; according to that, God shall reign over the heathen; God sit upon his holy throne. From that time also the Apostles have sat upon twelve thrones, that is, over all Christians; for every Christian who receives the word of Peter, becomes Peter's throne, and so of the rest of the Apostles. On these thrones then the Apostles sit, parceled into twelve divisions, after the variety of minds and hearts, known to God only. 

For as the Jewish nation was split into twelve tribes, so is the whole Christian people divided into twelve, so as that some souls are numbered with the tribe of Reuben, and so of the rest, according to their several qualities. For all have not all graces alike, one is excellent in this, another in that. And so the Apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel, that is, all the Jews, by this, that the Gentiles received the Apostles' word. The whole body of Christians are indeed twelve thrones for the Apostles, but one throne for Christ. For all excellencies are but one throne for Christ, for He alone is equally perfect in all virtues. But of the Apostles each one is more perfect in some one particular excellence, as Peter in faith; so Peter tests upon his faith, John on his innocence, and so of the rest. 

And that Christ spoke of reward to be given to the Apostles in this world, is shown by what follows, And everyone that has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, &c. For if these shall receive an hundred fold in this life, without doubt to the Apostles also was promised a reward in this present life. 

CHRYS; Or; He holds out rewards in the future life to the Apostles, because they were already looking above, and desired nothing of things present; but to others He promises things present. 

ORIGEN; Or otherwise; Whoever shall leave all and follow Christ, he also shall receive those things that were promised to Peter. But if he has not left all, but only those things in special here enumerated, he shall receive manifold, and shall possess eternal life. 

JEROME; There are that take occasion from this passage to bring forward the thousand years after the resurrection, and say that then we shall have a hundred fold of the things we have given up, and moreover life eternal. But though the promise be in other things worthy, in the matter of wives it seems to have somewhat shameful, if he who has forsaken one wife for the Lord's sake, shall receive a hundred in the world to come. The meaning is therefore, that he that has forsaken carnal things for the Savior's sake, shall receive spiritual things, which in a comparison of value are as a hundred to a small number. 

ORIGEN; And in this world, because for his brethren after the flesh he shall find many brethren in the faith; for parents, all the Bishops and Presbyters; for sons, all that have the age of sons. The Angels also are brethren, and all they are sisters that have offered themselves chaste virgins to Christ, as well they that still continue on earth, as they that now live in heaven. The houses and lands manifold more suppose in the repose of Paradise, and the city of God. And besides all these things they shall possess eternal life. 

AUG; That He says, A hundred fold, is explained by the Apostle, when he says, As having nothing, and yet possessing all things. For a hundred is sometimes put for the whole universe. 

JEROME; And that, And every one that has forsaken brethren, agrees with that He had said before, I am come to set a man at variance with his father. For they who for the faith of Christ and the preaching of the Gospel shall despise all the ties, the riches, and pleasures of this world, they shall receive an hundred fold, and shall possess eternal life. 

CHRYS; But when He says, He that has forsaken wife, it is not to be taken of actual severing of the marriage tie, but that we should hold the ties of tile faith dearer than any other. And here is, I think, a covert allusion to times of persecution; for because there should be many who would draw away their sons to heathenism, when that should happen, they should be held neither as fathers, nor husbands. 

RABAN; But because many with what zeal they take up the pursuit of virtue, do not with the same complete it; but either grow cool, or fall away rapidly; it follows, But many that are first shall be last, and the last first. 

ORIGEN; By this He exhorts those that come late to the heavenly word, to have to ascend to perfection before many whom they see to have grown old in the faith. This sense may also overthrow those that boast to have been educated in Christianity by Christian parents, especially if those parents have filled the Episcopal see, or the office of Priests or Deacons in the Church; and hinder them from desponding who have entertained the Christian doctrines more newly. It has also another meaning; the first, are the Israelites, who become last because of their unbelief; and the Gentiles who were last become first. He is careful to say, Many; for not all who are first shall be last, nor all last first. For before this have many of mankind, who by nature are the last, been made by an angelic life above the Angels; and some Angels who were first have been made last through their sin. 

REMIG; It may also be referred in particular to the rich man, who seemed to be first, by his fulfillment of the precepts of the Law, but was made last by his preferring his worldly substance to God. The holy Apostles seemed to be last, but by leaving all they were made first by the grace of humility. There are many who having entered upon good works, fall therefrom, and from having been first, become last.
 

[Anomaly]

Ain't nobody got time to read all that mess.     This is a phorum, not the published reference section.  You must now write "succinct synopsis with footnote " two million times.  

Edited May 12, 2016 by Anomaly

[Nihil Obstat]

20 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Ain't nobody got time to read all that mess.     This is a phorum, not the published reference section.  You must now write "succinct synopsis with footnote " two million times.  

Ignore it if you want. 

[Anomaly]

5 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Ignore it if you want. 

Hmmm.  At least you're reading all of my post. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I was a tough slog. Could have used some footnotes.

[Era Might]

3 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Your personal brand of mysticism has lead you far astray.

It's not mysticism, simply a reading of the story. The entire premise is that the Rich Young Man is not only rich, but good...he has followed the commandments all his life. If he were Catholic, he'd probably be a Knight of Columbus. But Jesus doesn't uphold his respectability...in fact, Jesus takes the opportunity to deny his own respectability. Why do you call me good?

It's okay to have an original thought sometimes. Your long copy and paste would have been more interesting if you had given your own thoughts and demonstrated that you have digested what you expect others to read...digested rather than vomited it. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like you've even really thought about the Rich Young Man except as a subject of ancient commentary, and not an actual living story.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Era Might

[Era Might]

I don't think we appreciate the Holiness of sinners like we should. Maybe it's a Western thing...the Russians had a deeper sense of the mystery at work in poor sinners. Sinners are always a reminder that the Way to heaven is not in being good ("Why do you call me good?"), the Way to heaven is in recognizing our nothingness. The great scandal of Christ was that sinners are closer to heaven than saints. The least in the kingdom is greater than the greatest.

[Nihil Obstat]

Lovely. I think I am done here.

[Guest]

Later Mr. Smug.