Anyone have a clue what sisters these are?

[DameAgnes]

The habits are not familiar...

 

http://aleteia.org/2016/04/27/why-we-christians-should-both-laugh-and-cry/

[Sponsa-Christi]

I think they're the Daughters of Mary of Nazareth (a new community in Boston). It looks like they're one of these communities with several types of habits worn for different seasons or occasions. 

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

correct. They are the Daughters of Nazareth founded by M. Olga. There habit is in the process of "becoming". Which is almost always the case for new communities but there wasn't the internet to "track" the changes! :-)
Fabric has a lot to do with it. Just when you find the  "perfect" material it is no longer being made!

[TheresaThoma]

36 minutes ago, Sr Mary Catharine OP said:

correct. They are the Daughters of Nazareth founded by M. Olga. There habit is in the process of "becoming". Which is almost always the case for new communities but there wasn't the internet to "track" the changes! :-)
Fabric has a lot to do with it. Just when you find the  "perfect" material it is no longer being made!

I know one community that found their "perfect" material and then went and bought a ton (think those rolls of home decor fabric you see in fabric stores and I think they had at least 3 of those if not more) of it to make sure they would have it around for quite some time. 

[Gabriela]

Why don't communities make their own fabric? I mean, just buy raw wool and spin it.

[Nunsuch]

Well, I don't know this community. But I also don't know many nurses, teachers, pastoral  ministers, etc., who have either the time or the skills to spin thread and weave cloth....

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

10 hours ago, Gabriela said:

Why don't communities make their own fabric? I mean, just buy raw wool and spin it.

You're joking, right!

[Luigi]

11 hours ago, Gabriela said:

Why don't communities make their own fabric? I mean, just buy raw wool and spin it.

I met a woman once, who came from a very well-to-do family. Her father's business was producing cloth for religious habits. She was raised in Chicago, before Vatican II - I guess the business was headquartered in Chicago. Anyway, the family business went the way of all flesh after Vatican II. I have no idea where religious orders get their cloth now.

[Gabriela]

4 hours ago, Sr Mary Catharine OP said:

You're joking, right!

Not at all. I mean, obviously I have no idea what it involves, but for a larger community, it should be doable, no? And if one community makes it their means of sustenance, they could be the supplier for many more communities.

[Sponsa-Christi]

50 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

Not at all. I mean, obviously I have no idea what it involves, but for a larger community, it should be doable, no? And if one community makes it their means of sustenance, they could be the supplier for many more communities.

I used to do historical re-enactment type stuff as a summer job when I was in college, and making one's own cloth is VERY involved. 

Even if you buy wool already off the sheep (and so eliminate all the farming involved with that), you need to sort of brush it, and then spin it into thread or yarn. If the finished cloth is going to be any color other than gray-ish off-white, then you also need to dye it. (By the way, it's better to dye before spinning, as the color lasts longer that way---that's where the expression "dyed in the wool" comes from!)

Spinning is kind of a lost skill, so it's tricky. I love sewing, knitting, needlework, etc., but I was never able to get the knack of using a drop spindle. Then, assuming you're able to figure out how to spin a nice, even thread, then you have to weave it into fabric. Professional-quality weaving requires a lot of big, expensive equipment; it takes a long time; and again, it's a skill that's no longer common knowledge. 

I suppose MAYBE a community COULD manage to do this on a small scale in just the right circumstances (like, if you're an old, established, well-endowed Benedictine monastery already set up with weaving looms, spinning wheels, and competent weaving Sisters---and you have a custom of each Sister only getting one habit and wearing it until it's threadbare), but it's definitely not a practical "life hack"!

Edited April 28, 2016 by Sponsa-Christi

[truthfinder]

3 hours ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

I used to do historical re-enactment type stuff as a summer job when I was in college, and making one's own cloth is VERY involved. 

Even if you buy wool already off the sheep (and so eliminate all the farming involved with that), you need to sort of brush it, and then spin it into thread or yarn. If the finished cloth is going to be any color other than gray-ish off-white, then you also need to dye it. (By the way, it's better to dye before spinning, as the color lasts longer that way---that's where the expression "dyed in the wool" comes from!)

Spinning is kind of a lost skill, so it's tricky. I love sewing, knitting, needlework, etc., but I was never able to get the knack of using a drop spindle. Then, assuming you're able to figure out how to spin a nice, even thread, then you have to weave it into fabric. Professional-quality weaving requires a lot of big, expensive equipment; it takes a long time; and again, it's a skill that's no longer common knowledge. 

I suppose MAYBE a community COULD manage to do this on a small scale in just the right circumstances (like, if you're an old, established, well-endowed Benedictine monastery already set up with weaving looms, spinning wheels, and competent weaving Sisters---and you have a custom of each Sister only getting one habit and wearing it until it's threadbare), but it's definitely not a practical "life hack"!

Your description made me think of Regina Laudis - maybe this is an art they can pick up. 

But also, look at how many congregations ditched their wool habits after VII (or before) because of the issues with wool. It's great and all, and in some ways Carmelite habits made out of wool have a certain 'substance' to them, but the practical issues, as you've pointed out, seem to have made spinning an craft that is long past.  (It used to be a way for women to make decent money as a cottage-industry in ages past - it was certainly a skilled trade then and valued). 

[Sponsa-Christi]

26 minutes ago, truthfinder said:

But also, look at how many congregations ditched their wool habits after VII (or before) because of the issues with wool. It's great and all, and in some ways Carmelite habits made out of wool have a certain 'substance' to them, but the practical issues, as you've pointed out, seem to have made spinning an craft that is long past.  (It used to be a way for women to make decent money as a cottage-industry in ages past - it was certainly a skilled trade then and valued). 

Well, it is possible to buy %100 wool fabric and just make habits out of the pre-made cloth. But speaking as someone who likes to sew (rather than someone who wears a habit!), wool has its own issues. For one thing, it's REALLY warm, which might work well if you're someplace like Ireland where it's cool and rainy all year long. But it's much too warm to be hygienic year-round in most parts of the United States.  Also, wool is a fussy fabric to maintain, as it's prone to shrinking and felting if it's not cared for properly. 

And in case anyone wanted to try making their own linen...that involves planting flax; letting it grow; harvesting the stalks properly; letting the stalks dry in a particular way; beating the dried stalks in such a way that you have access to the linen "tow" fibers; using special tools to basically comb out the linen fibers and get rid of the straw-like outer stalk particles...and THEN you can get to the spinning and weaving!

Weaving and spinning used to be a normal household task that people in general---and women in particular---grew up learning how to do, but that changed with the Industrial Revolution and the invention of machinery that took over the hand-craft of spinning and weaving. So these would have been lost arts well before Vatican II. 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Sponsa-Christi

[Gabriela]

It really doesn't sound that bad (wool or linen, I mean). I mean, if it's what your community does for a living, and religious only have a couple habits that they wear for years and years, I think it's doable.

But the initial outlay for equipment and training would be a challenge, I agree. And I do think some large Benedictine/Trappist abbey is the place to do it. Imagine the service such a community could provide to other religious, though. I think it's worth it.

[Sponsa-Christi]

42 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

It really doesn't sound that bad (wool or linen, I mean). I mean, if it's what your community does for a living, and religious only have a couple habits that they wear for years and years, I think it's doable.

But the initial outlay for equipment and training would be a challenge, I agree. And I do think some large Benedictine/Trappist abbey is the place to do it. Imagine the service such a community could provide to other religious, though. I think it's worth it.

If there was a newly-founded community for this, they could call themselves: "Sisters of the Remnant"! (Pun totally intended!)

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

As a weaver I would say that a home woven fabric is going to be very thick and heavy! I am wearing a poly/wool habit as I write and it must be at least 100epi. And it was cut from 60" fabric.

One of the reasons why the first friars were chastised for making their capuce longer and longer so that it is what it is today is that in the middle ages such a garment would have been an amazing waste of fabric. Things were hemmed beautifully as they are today. Clothing of the average person was quite coarse and heavy and didn't waste an inch.

The early Carmelite habits were made from horse blankets!