Men's religious life 35+

[Egeria]

21 hours ago, bardegaulois said:

Nonetheless, our witness of the amazing scholarship that has come out of monasteries throughout the Church's history shows that this is not necessarily so. Again, there really is no Benedictine "order," as we often think of it, and thus every house, being independent, will have a different personality. So perhaps (and I'd ask Gabriela, Egeria, and Charbel to comment upon this), it's an issue best resolved house to house, a more general rule not really existing. Any thoughts?

Bardegaulois, I would not be too worried about Benedictines in general although, as you note, you will need to get a good sense of individual monasteries. Also, although this is not absolute, I agree with Gabriela think that this is more of a problem for women's communities than it is for men's communities. 

In terms of getting to know communities, I think that visiting them without initially speaking about vocation can have some definite advantages. It may mean that you get to know the guest master and possibly other monks, and not simply the novice master and/or vocation director.

It may also be worth asking (perhaps not on your first visit, but once you have established some contact) if you can see their library. While this probably won't be open to guests generally, I would guess that they would be open to allowing it if you could think of some good reasons for consulting it. And a monastic library can tell you quite a lot about a community.

In addition, reading anything that the monks may write (books, articles, blogs, monastery newsletters) can give you an idea about them. I mentioned previously the prior's blog at Holy Cross. While I suspect that is out of your distance range, things like that can give one an insight into the "tone" of a community.

31 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

I think they do tend to be, yes, at least in my experience. Traditionalist Catholics tend to have a very Victorian notion of womanhood, and extensive study isn't a part of that. I have noticed this in some traditionalist women's houses. They "know their place" relative to the men and emphasize a very domestic-looking way of life. Regina Laudis seems like an exception to this. I'd love to hear of others.

I doubt very much that this affects the men's traditionalist houses, though. They're men!

 

Gabriela, I tend to disagree, although it may depend on what we mean by traditionalist, and no doubt varies from place to place and group to group. When I sent my initial letter to various monasteries (that resulted in the frosty response I mentioned), I got a very friendly response back from the novice mistress of the most traditional monastery I had written to (Solesmes Benedictines) in which she described her own experience of discerning while working on her doctorate. And when I visited there it was clear that they valued study.

However, if by traditionalist you are referring to various new groups, who may well look back longingly to Victorian values, then I understand and accept that, not having much experience of them myself. But if one means the older monastic Orders, then I'm not convinced. Anti-intellectualism can be a problem in some places, and I think there are various causes for that. The practical things that you describe (like the demands of farming) account for a lot, especially among Trappists. And the differences between men's and women's communities of the same Order (just contrast their libraries!) are certainly a problem. But in my experience they are the result of a certain history, rather than because the current monastics think women shouldn't study.

From what I have seen of Benedictines, it is actually the more traditionalist (in the broad sense) ones who are most concerned about safeguarding study. But this is also related to economics, for if one is to free up time for study one also needs to know that one has enough to live on. And buy books with... (And so the economics of the community may also be something for @bardegaulois to bear in mind).

I would also add that I have encountered anti-intellectualism in communities that could not possibly have been described as traditionalist. When a community neglects intellectual formation, it becomes vulnerable to manipulation by those who seek to undermine tradition, and who appeal to experience and emotion in doing so. And they succeed because the sisters simply do not know any better. I don't want to get specific, but I have seen this close up and it is devastating. 

 

[NadaTeTurbe]

I have experience with new religious communities that are part of the CHarismatic movement (and when I say charismatic, I mean very charistmatic), and they were very anti-intellectual, on a very unhealthy way. I'll try to post about it tomorrow, it's one of the big reason why I left these communities and the Charismatic Movement (I'm slowly going back, with more healthy communities). 

[Nunsuch]

I was certainly not casting aspersions on anyone. I do, however, find it sad if more traditional groups (women, men, or both) have an anti-intellectual bent. Certainly, monasteries in the Middle Ages were legendary as centers for the preservation and creation of knowledge! I would think that intellectual rigor is something that has no ideology (though individual intellectuals well might).  As for Victorianism, well, I just finished writing a scholarly article on the intellectual contributions of sister-educators in the Victorian era and late 19th century.  Gabriela (and others) I will let you know if/when it is accepted for publication, as it currently is under consideration.

[Sponsa-Christi]

One thought I had on women's religious communities and intellectual life---I think there is quite a big cultural difference between encouraging education so that the Sisters can be competent teachers, and encouraging a lively intellectual life so that one can read on the level of a professional theologian. (I've noticed this a lot in catechetical circles.) 

[Gabriela]

2 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

Certainly, monasteries in the Middle Ages were legendary as centers for the preservation and creation of knowledge! I would think that intellectual rigor is something that has no ideology (though individual intellectuals well might).

That's a great point. I was just sitting in on a primer in Dominican spirituality today, and I've been reading about Cistercians, and I wondered: Can it be said that Dominicans emphasize intellectual contemplation of God more, whereas Cistercians emphasize experiential contemplation of God more? It seems reasonable (no pun intended) to me, but I'm not sure. Anyone with deep knowledge/vast experience (sorry again!) of the two, please comment.

 

2 hours ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

One thought I had on women's religious communities and intellectual life---I think there is quite a big cultural difference between encouraging education so that the Sisters can be competent teachers, and encouraging a lively intellectual life so that one can read on the level of a professional theologian. (I've noticed this a lot in catechetical circles.) 

Also a great point. And there certainly is a difference between encouraging study for a practical reason (say, related to the community's apostolate) and encouraging study for its own sake.

[Nunsuch]

I certainly appreciate the distinctions above, but would also want to suggest that I do so without implying a value judgment. BOTH approaches to study are, I think, meritorious--although not necessarily for any or all individuals (or communities).

[bardegaulois]

The only true way to find any of this out would be to explore, it seems. I'm now sending out letters to a few houses asking to stay for a few days after the end of the semestre. The letters don't announce that I'm considering the monastic life, but only that I wish to take a retreat. I'll return to those that speak to me later in the summer and announce my intentions after a few visits. Until then, these questions can only be given speculative answers, just as I'm sure other questions may emerge over the next few months.

Thanks again to all who contributed here. I'll likely post a few follow-ups over the coming months.

[TheresaThoma]

23 hours ago, bardegaulois said:

The only true way to find any of this out would be to explore, it seems. I'm now sending out letters to a few houses asking to stay for a few days after the end of the semestre. The letters don't announce that I'm considering the monastic life, but only that I wish to take a retreat. I'll return to those that speak to me later in the summer and announce my intentions after a few visits. Until then, these questions can only be given speculative answers, just as I'm sure other questions may emerge over the next few months.

Thanks again to all who contributed here. I'll likely post a few follow-ups over the coming months.

I'm not sure if this goes for all communities but there can be some benefits of letting a community know you are interested in discerning. I experienced this first hand when I was visiting a community. There was another young woman there who was just on an individual retreat/visiting one of the Sisters and I was there as an "observer" (their term for someone who is discerning with the community). I was allowed to participate in more of the community's activities than she did. I also got the impression that I was allowed to go in certain areas because I was an observer and not just a normal retreatant.

One of the sisters actually told me about another young lady who came for a retreat, she was actually wanting to be more of a discernment visit but she hadn't stated that to the Sisters. So they kind of left her alone thinking she was just there on a personal retreat. A couple days into her stay in one of her conversations her real reason for visiting came out and the Sisters started including her in many more of their activities.

That all said there are some benefits to getting to know a community a bit first before letting them know you are interested in discerning with them                                                                                                                                                                 

[Egeria]

On 4/15/2016, 1:52:43, Gabriela said:

That's a great point. I was just sitting in on a primer in Dominican spirituality today, and I've been reading about Cistercians, and I wondered: Can it be said that Dominicans emphasize intellectual contemplation of God more, whereas Cistercians emphasize experiential contemplation of God more? It seems reasonable (no pun intended) to me, but I'm not sure. Anyone with deep knowledge/vast experience (sorry again!) of the two, please comment.

Gabriela, I'm not sure that I'd accept the distinction between intellectual and experiential here, but that's partly because our understandings of those terms have changed. However, I do think that you point to an important distinction , or better, to a shift that occurred in attitudes towards scholarship in the late Middle Ages. It is not for nothing that Bernard of Clairvaux is often referred to as the last of the Fathers (in the West, that is - in the East the age of the Fathers never closed) and the monastic tradition in the West has preserved more of the Patristic attitude to theology than other later traditions. This is not to say that it is anti-intellectual, but it preserves an older and more integrated understanding of the human intellectual in the search for God.

On text that may be relevant here is Jean Leclercq's The Love of Learning and the Desire for God. (Interestingly, a Google search for the title also brought up this post by the previously mention prior's blog in Chicago - and, no, I'm really not trying to pressure @bardegaulois to investigate them , but I do think it's a worthwhile blog!)

[Br.Sean Taylor]

Are there any communities tear do accept men over 35? Robert TaylorFBR 

[Luigi]

A number of Benedictine monasteries have accepted mature vocations recently. I don't know their requirements - perhaps these men had long-standing relationships with the monks or their schools. And I know the Congregation of Alexian Brothers accepts men who are older. This is an active congregation, all brothers, no priests. Their ministry is primarily social services and health services. Here's their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/CongregationAlexianBrothers