What is this?

[mcg]

So I'm not Catholic, but Presbyterian. But I may be offered a job at a Catholic monastery this week. You see, some time ago I was on a trip when I came across a cloistered monastery in the middle of nowhere and decided to stay there. I loved it so much, I ended up staying for a week. They were in need of a maintenance guy/handyman, so I sent them my resume. They called last week and we had a phone and skype interview, and they're supposed to get back to me this week. I'm pretty confident I got the job. Because there's nothing around the monastery-no homes, grocery stores-nothing within 1 1/2 hour drive, I will be living there with free room and board in addition to a decent wage. Because of the isolation, the initial commitment is 3 months. If it doesn't work out after that, then I leave with no hard feelings. If it does work out, then I can stay as long as needed. They just ask that I give it at least 3 months to work through the change. I've spoken with my friends and one of the Pastors at my church and they think this would be an interesting opportunity. I'm surprised that they are encouraging me to take it even though it will take me many hours away from them. In some ways this is not a very big decision. I'm single, never married and have no dependents or family. I have very little in the way of belongings (and have no desire to own anything more than what I have), and currently I rent a room month-to-month. I don't even have a car, I get around using my bike and the trolleys. But in other ways it is a big decision. I don't want to take it for the novelty of working at a monastery, or with the intention of leaving after the 3 months. But if I do plan to make it a long-term job, then to what end do I do that? God has been working very powerfully in my life over the past few months, and now I get this job offer out of the blue. How do I discern God's providential hand in this prospect? It seems to be akin to discerning an actual vowed vocation, so I thought I should ask people in that very process if you have any insight into how I can think and pray about this and how I can prepare for it if I take the job.

[TheresaThoma]

Often times in life we have to take a chance and allow God to work with the results. Obviously there is always some risk involved in taking that "leap of faith" but if one is prudent it can lead to some amesome things. It sounds like you have prayed over this and sought others advice and wisdom. From what you have written it seems like they are all pointing to you at least giving this a good try. 

Last year I was offered a wonderful job. Working full time at a Catholic organization very close to my home and it felt like it was written for my particular unique skill set. As I was working temporary jobs at the time it seemed really good. I prayed about it and talked it over with my spiritual director (a priest I meet with regularly). This job definitely wasn't in my plans but everything seemed to point to this being part of God's plan. One thing that helped me was to pray over it in light of the First Principle and Foundation of St Ignatius of Loyola:

"Man is created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save his soul.

And the other things on the face of the earth are created for man and that they may help him in prosecuting the end for which he is created.

From this it follows that man is to use them as much as they help him on to his end, and ought to rid himself of them so far as they hinder him as to it.

For this it is necessary to make ourselves indifferent to all created things in all that is allowed to the choice of our free will and is not prohibited to it; so that, on our part, we want not health rather than sickness, riches rather than poverty, honor rather than dishonor, long rather than short life, and so in all the rest; desiring and choosing only what is most conducive for us to the end for which we are created."

Pray and ask if this opportunity will fall inline with this first principle and foundation.

I took the job and it has been wonderful. Right now though I am starting to feel that it may be time to leave this job, not in a bad way but in a good way. I feel I will have accomplished what I need to accomplish there and it is time to move on. The key is to be responsive and supple to God's call. I don't know what He may be calling me to a year from now. I only can go on where I feel he is calling me now. So maybe you may only be called to work there for three months perhaps three years or more but God will show you that in His own time you just have to be will and ready to listen.

[Luigi]

I don't know how much discernment is needed for this decision - it sounds more like a job opportunity. Admittedly, a very interesting job opportunity. And admittedly providential.

You've stayed at the monastery for a week already, so you should have a pretty good idea of what to expect -

1. Lots of quiet time - can you stand that? 

2. Plenty of nature to look at but probably not much in the way of other amusements - movies, bars, malls, and so forth. - Can you stand that? 

3. I'd take a radio, a (small?) television, and plenty of books for the first three months. And hobby supplies if you craft leather, or build ships in bottles, or whittle sculptures out of driftwood. 

Yous say that God has been working in you lately. I'd approach this initial three-month period as an extended retreat - time away from the world to pray and study and think and write ans whatever else. At the end of the three months, you'll have a clearer idea of whether or not to stay, and why. 

Best of luck with it!

[vee]

I say go for it.  Its a three month term to start, not three years!  Even a vowed vocation starts off with one little step after another.

[Benedictus]

May well be a good experience in terms of your relationship with God and with yourself. You have been there before so you have a good idea of the place. Three months seems a good period and if it doesn't work out you can leave without any hard feelings. If you stay longer then all the good. It's fairly typical for convents and monastic houses to hire people for nursing, handywork etc for periods of time. I wouldn't worry they are hoping to enlist you or anything like that

[mcg]

10 hours ago, TheresaThoma said:

Often times in life we have to take a chance and allow God to work with the results. Obviously there is always some risk involved in taking that "leap of faith" but if one is prudent it can lead to some amesome things. It sounds like you have prayed over this and sought others advice and wisdom. From what you have written it seems like they are all pointing to you at least giving this a good try. 

Last year I was offered a wonderful job. Working full time at a Catholic organization very close to my home and it felt like it was written for my particular unique skill set. As I was working temporary jobs at the time it seemed really good. I prayed about it and talked it over with my spiritual director (a priest I meet with regularly). This job definitely wasn't in my plans but everything seemed to point to this being part of God's plan. One thing that helped me was to pray over it in light of the First Principle and Foundation of St Ignatius of Loyola:

"Man is created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save his soul.

And the other things on the face of the earth are created for man and that they may help him in prosecuting the end for which he is created.

From this it follows that man is to use them as much as they help him on to his end, and ought to rid himself of them so far as they hinder him as to it.

For this it is necessary to make ourselves indifferent to all created things in all that is allowed to the choice of our free will and is not prohibited to it; so that, on our part, we want not health rather than sickness, riches rather than poverty, honor rather than dishonor, long rather than short life, and so in all the rest; desiring and choosing only what is most conducive for us to the end for which we are created."

Pray and ask if this opportunity will fall inline with this first principle and foundation.

I took the job and it has been wonderful. Right now though I am starting to feel that it may be time to leave this job, not in a bad way but in a good way. I feel I will have accomplished what I need to accomplish there and it is time to move on. The key is to be responsive and supple to God's call. I don't know what He may be calling me to a year from now. I only can go on where I feel he is calling me now. So maybe you may only be called to work there for three months perhaps three years or more but God will show you that in His own time you just have to be will and ready to listen.

I too have been working temporary jobs for the past few years. I've also been working slowly on an undergraduate degree. I've done maintenance/contracting work my whole adult life. So taking this job further solidifies me in that vocation. But the lack of distractions could enable me to take online classes to speed up completing my degree, thereby contributing to the vocation I will get out of my degree.

For Catholics, "vocation" it seems refers primarily to a call to religious life. But for Protestants, particularly those in the Reformed/Calvinist tradition, "vocation" refers to our profession. I think this is why another name for a trade school is "vocational school". I've always been encouraged to learn a trade or profession, dedicate myself wholeheartedly to it and with God's grace, acquire an increase in my outward estate while balancing frugality and thrift. I've been unable to find a job in the skill set I've cultivated that has any stability or that will pay what the market suggests those skills are worth, so since I have money from a GI Bill, I've been using that to go back to school to find a different career path. 

[Benedictus]

4 hours ago, mcg said:

I too have been working temporary jobs for the past few years. I've also been working slowly on an undergraduate degree. I've done maintenance/contracting work my whole adult life. So taking this job further solidifies me in that vocation. But the lack of distractions could enable me to take online classes to speed up completing my degree, thereby contributing to the vocation I will get out of my degree.

For Catholics, "vocation" it seems refers primarily to a call to religious life. But for Protestants, particularly those in the Reformed/Calvinist tradition, "vocation" refers to our profession. I think this is why another name for a trade school is "vocational school". I've always been encouraged to learn a trade or profession, dedicate myself wholeheartedly to it and with God's grace, acquire an increase in my outward estate while balancing frugality and thrift. I've been unable to find a job in the skill set I've cultivated that has any stability or that will pay what the market suggests those skills are worth, so since I have money from a GI Bill, I've been using that to go back to school to find a different career path. 

Pope St John Paul II stated that ‘Love is the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being.’ Vocation should comprise three elements: 1. The call to a way of life - consecrated life, clerical or lay (single or married).  Most prople have marriage as there primary way of life, at least in terms of numbers. 2. The universal call to holiness -  to grow in discipleship  3. The call to work - dimension of our vocation as expressed in mission and tasks, given meaning by God.

The task is to work out each element and integrate them so they are orientated towards God. Often, so it seems to me anyway, people work out a career or skill but don't necessarily settle the other aspects and hold them in harmony (even creative tension) towards a unified purpose.

[SNJM]

I really like the way you are approaching this decision/opportunity. It feels like you are really thinking deeply and trying to make a decision from an intelligent, good place. Just for the sake of this being a-once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, of course I would do it. But more than that, this is a time for you to really experience a time of getting to know yourself and delve deeply into your spiritual life. Most people don't have that chance - even when discerning vowed life, jobs and family get in the way. 

From my heart to yours, I hope you do it! I hope you go and have the time of your life and stay as long as you are able! Most Monasteries have great libraries, so I wouldn't worry about books. Along the lines of what someone else said, if you do any kind of craft, bring those tools and I would definitely recommend bringing journals so you can write. You don't need to bring expensive ones - I just found a bunch at the 99 cent store. Lastly, if you can get a copy of the DVD "Alone in the Wilderness," - a book & DVD about Richard Poenekke - who lived alone in Alaska more than 20 years (for non religious purposes, though he certainly experiences God!) I would strongly recommend it! Also, you might enjoy reading about Charles de Foucauld. Not for conversion purposes, but for information.

I wish you every blessing in the world & I hope you will let us know what happens.

May you listen to the ear of your heart. 

[andibc]

Just curious, how were you on a trip without a car allowing you to stumble upon a monastery in the middle of nowhere? 

[littlesister]

It sounds to me that the Lord has his hand in this rare opportunity.  Don't be afraid to follow where he leads, and be assured of the support of the pham, some of whom would doubtless be thrilled to be offered the same experience.  We do pray for each other.

[Gabriela]

On 3/28/2016, 10:17:26, Benedictus said:

I wouldn't worry they are hoping to enlist you or anything like that

Oh but they are, Benedictus. They are.  

 

On 3/29/2016, 7:42:27, andibc said:

Just curious, how were you on a trip without a car allowing you to stumble upon a monastery in the middle of nowhere? 

It was a long bike ride. Duh.

 

Srsly, mcg: First, welcome to Phatmass! Second, I would do it, but you must decide, of course. And to that end, I think you've received very good advice so far.

I will simply pray for you, brother. 

[mcg]

On 3/29/2016, 7:42:27, andibc said:

Just curious, how were you on a trip without a car allowing you to stumble upon a monastery in the middle of nowhere? 

I was on a bicycle tour from Canada to Mexico. I moved to Portland, OR from my hometown of Pittsburgh, PA to take a contract job. I was in Portland for a few months, but lost the contract. I had only been to the West Coast once for two days in San Francisco but for a conference so I never got to see anything. So since I had money and was in no hurry to go back to Pittsburgh, and wanted to see the West Coast I decided to take some time to see it. When I moved to Portland, I bought a nice bicycle since bicycling is all the rage there. When I lost my contract, it was the beginning of the season when people do this sort of thing, so I started in Bellingham, WA and ended in San Diego, then went back north to Monterey and East to Salinas where I took Amtrak back to Portland, then packed up and went back to Pittsburgh. I camped and stayed at hostels along the way, but found out about a monastery and it just so happened that they were booked up for all of but a few days, so I was able to stay there for about a week.  

On 3/31/2016, 11:48:30, Gabriela said:

Oh but they are, Benedictus. They are.  

 

It was a long bike ride. Duh.

 

Srsly, mcg: First, welcome to Phatmass! Second, I would do it, but you must decide, of course. And to that end, I think you've received very good advice so far.

I will simply pray for you, brother. 

It was a long bike ride, how did you know? I went on about a 4-month long bicycle trip, camping along the way from Canada to Mexico along the Pacific Coast Bike Trail. 

[Gabriela]

7 minutes ago, mcg said:

It was a long bike ride, how did you know? I went on about a 4-month long bicycle trip, camping along the way from Canada to Mexico along the Pacific Coast Bike Trail. 

Well, how else would one "stumble on a monastery" riding a bike? Most monasteries are in the middle of nowhere.

So, mcg, did you take the job?  

[mcg]

On 3/28/2016, 6:43:02, SNJM said:

I really like the way you are approaching this decision/opportunity. It feels like you are really thinking deeply and trying to make a decision from an intelligent, good place. Just for the sake of this being a-once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, of course I would do it. But more than that, this is a time for you to really experience a time of getting to know yourself and delve deeply into your spiritual life. Most people don't have that chance - even when discerning vowed life, jobs and family get in the way. 

From my heart to yours, I hope you do it! I hope you go and have the time of your life and stay as long as you are able! Most Monasteries have great libraries, so I wouldn't worry about books. Along the lines of what someone else said, if you do any kind of craft, bring those tools and I would definitely recommend bringing journals so you can write. You don't need to bring expensive ones - I just found a bunch at the 99 cent store. Lastly, if you can get a copy of the DVD "Alone in the Wilderness," - a book & DVD about Richard Poenekke - who lived alone in Alaska more than 20 years (for non religious purposes, though he certainly experiences God!) I would strongly recommend it! Also, you might enjoy reading about Charles de Foucauld. Not for conversion purposes, but for information.

I wish you every blessing in the world & I hope you will let us know what happens.

May you listen to the ear of your heart. 

I've decided to do it! I'll be leaving for the monastery later this month (May). I'll look into the DVD you recommended. There are a couple of films I saw recently about monastic life. One was "Into Great Silence" about a monastery in France, the other was one on youtube about an isolated Russian Orthodox monastery. I became interested in contemplation a while back when I noticed that some of the other Presbyterian churches in my area started offering Taize services. They're inspired by the spirituality of an inter-denominational monastic community in Taize, France. That led me to read Thomas Merton, St. John of the Cross, and the sayings of the desert hermits. I looked into my own tradition to see if we have anything similar and found out that the Puritans (some of whom were Presbyterian, others were Congregationalists) actually developed what could be described as a kind of Lectio Divina mixed with the office of Compline. They would recite or sing a Psalm, then a scripture reading read very slowly. They would meditate on that scripture reading, recalling any cross-references they could think of. They would then examine their conscience, make a confession to God and resolve to change, then sing or recite another Psalm. Sometimes in this simple "liturgy" they would even include the Lord's Prayer and Doxology. Of course, they were so far removed geographically from Catholicism, and probably hadn't been Catholic for a couple centuries so I don't think they were inspired to develop this from Catholicism. I think that there's just something inherent about Christianity that compels very similar expressions of faith. 

10 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

Well, how else would one "stumble on a monastery" riding a bike? Most monasteries are in the middle of nowhere.

So, mcg, did you take the job?  

I did, I start later this month. 

[TheresaThoma]

10 hours ago, mcg said:

I've decided to do it! I'll be leaving for the monastery later this month (May). I'll look into the DVD you recommended. There are a couple of films I saw recently about monastic life. One was "Into Great Silence" about a monastery in France, the other was one on youtube about an isolated Russian Orthodox monastery. I became interested in contemplation a while back when I noticed that some of the other Presbyterian churches in my area started offering Taize services. They're inspired by the spirituality of an inter-denominational monastic community in Taize, France. That led me to read Thomas Merton, St. John of the Cross, and the sayings of the desert hermits. I looked into my own tradition to see if we have anything similar and found out that the Puritans (some of whom were Presbyterian, others were Congregationalists) actually developed what could be described as a kind of Lectio Divina mixed with the office of Compline. They would recite or sing a Psalm, then a scripture reading read very slowly. They would meditate on that scripture reading, recalling any cross-references they could think of. They would then examine their conscience, make a confession to God and resolve to change, then sing or recite another Psalm. Sometimes in this simple "liturgy" they would even include the Lord's Prayer and Doxology. Of course, they were so far removed geographically from Catholicism, and probably hadn't been Catholic for a couple centuries so I don't think they were inspired to develop this from Catholicism. I think that there's just something inherent about Christianity that compels very similar expressions of faith. 

That is super interesting about the "liturgy" that you described. It is interesting to see how certain prayer styles keep organically showing up. I would definitely love to hear more of your thoughts while you are there.

(BTW praying the psalms as part of the Divine Office really makes them come alive.)