What Does the Church Say to This Argument for Women's Ordination?

[Amppax]

57 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

Oof. I have Fundamentals of Dogma on my bed. It was the core of the curriculum at the CM program I was in. Needless to say, I am by no means a fan. It's good content, but reading it cover to cover is like slowly dragging yourself through glass.

Well there's your first problem, It's best used as a reference manual. That's like reading the encyclopedia cover to cover. 

[Peace]

6 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

Let's not get snarky. Nihil is a married man with a job who also studies at college. He can't exactly dedicate his night to proving his statement (which is the Catholic belief on the matter) to a stranger on teh interwebz.

Unbeknownst to you friend, I pay Nihil a nice sum for his services.

But seriously, obviously he can or cannot provide anything as he desires. It's not like I am holding his cat hostage.

And I can likewise  choose to agree or disagree with his assertion based on the evidence (or lack thereof) provided. I don't think it is snarky to ask someone for evidence supporting his conclusion, when a there is a point of dispute. As much as I respect his opinion, there are times when even Nihil must "show me the money" to convince me.

6 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I will bring out what I can when I can. The end of semester is coming and unfortunately my papers come first, not correcting your errors.  

Well then. I shall remain an Arian until after your paper is finished, or when I can find the answer myself. I would guess that it is not an issue that the Church has written much about (as opposed to the issue of post-apostolic infallibility). Good luck on the papers.

[PhuturePriest]

7 hours ago, Amppax said:

Well there's your first problem, It's best used as a reference manual. That's like reading the encyclopedia cover to cover. 

We were directed to read it cover to cover.

I feel cheated.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

On 4/4/2016, 4:48:13, Nihil Obstat said:

No. Female priests are an impossibility and a grave error.

Are you ever wrong? Not saying that your wrong but are you ever wrong? Why don't you say something more like " It is my opinion that this is impossible and will never happen, i could be wrong." That's a more humble approach dude. And how is it grave error, what is the holy magesteriums take on this if it even has one, provide the documents. And like i said i actually don't know either way unless someone provides infallible documents on the matter, i have no real opinion on whether it is possible or impossible and whether it is good or evil, because if it aint evil than it is possible as surely Our Lord desires all Good things for his body, and not saying that it is.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Nihil Obstat]

6 minutes ago, Tab'le De'Bah-Rye said:

Are you ever wrong? Not saying that your wrong but are you ever wrong? Why don't you say something more like " It is my opinion that this is impossible and will never happen, i could be wrong." That's a more humble approach dude. And how is it grave error, what is the holy magesteriums take on this if it even has one, provide the documents. And like i said i actually don't know either way unless someone provides infallible documents on the matter, i have no real opinion on whether it is possible or impossible and whether it is good or evil, because if it aint evil than it is possible as surely Our Lord desires all Good things for his body, and not saying that it is.

I am frequently wrong, but the Church never is. It is not my opinion that I have given you, but the Church's infallible teaching. So yes, the concept of female ordination is a grave error and certainly evil.

"4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html

 

So here is the real question. Will you admit that you are seriously mistaken this time, or will you continue to rant about me and my 'arrogance' while you wander along in blissful ignorance? We have all seen this script before. Your theological speculation is dangerous. Not for us - for you. Because you are usually wrong. This is not me telling you that you are wrong - it is the Church.

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

7 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I am frequently wrong, but the Church never is. It is not my opinion that I have given you, but the Church's infallible teaching. So yes, the concept of female ordination is a grave error and certainly evil.

"4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html

 

So here is the real question. Will you admit that you are seriously mistaken this time, or will you continue to rant about me and my 'arrogance' while you wander along in blissful ignorance? We have all seen this script before. Your theological speculation is dangerous. Not for us - for you. Because you are usually wrong. This is not me telling you that you are wrong - it is the Church.

 

I'm not seriously mistaken because i have never seen the documents or talked about this with anyone. Thank you for the proof. According to this document you have proffessed it is a high degree of infallibilty and that all must believe this document, so really all catholic christians whom disagree with this, as it states we all must believe what is stated than you are in heresy. Thankyou very much Nihil.God bless.

God is Good.

And again nihil your wrong, the church is not infallible, though the document you have presented seems to be. There are varying degrees of infallibility within the holy magesterium, but there are many documents that are not officially infallible. And i am a member of the church and i am definately not infallible thankyou very much. :P

Edited April 8, 2016 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Not that anyone is in heresy that has never read this document. And i don't know if your wrong about saying that the church is infallible, but it is my understanding that it isn't though at times through the grace of the Holy Spirit it does speak infallibly, like in this document you have provided where it states that all the faithful must believe as such.

We can not openly disagree with this document or indeed one is in heresy. And Nihil you have not provided any documents that say without a doubt that the Church is infallible. Why do you hold to this?  Though perhaps it is not heresy to say that the Church is infallible as i have yet to see a document of high degree that would have one to believe that those that believe that the church is infallible are in heresy. One can believe without a doubt that the Sky is green without it effecting there faith in God and his kingdom on earth. Something like that anyway. I could be wrong.

[Nihil Obstat]

[Not A Real Name]

11 hours ago, Tab'le De'Bah-Rye said:

I'm not seriously mistaken because i have never seen the documents or talked about this with anyone. Thank you for the proof. According to this document you have proffessed it is a high degree of infallibilty and that all must believe this document, so really all catholic christians whom disagree with this, as it states we all must believe what is stated than you are in heresy. Thankyou very much Nihil.God bless.

God is Good.

And again nihil your wrong, the church is not infallible, though the document you have presented seems to be. There are varying degrees of infallibility within the holy magesterium, but there are many documents that are not officially infallible. And i am a member of the church and i am definately not infallible thankyou very much.

 

11 hours ago, Tab'le De'Bah-Rye said:

Not that anyone is in heresy that has never read this document. And i don't know if your wrong about saying that the church is infallible, but it is my understanding that it isn't though at times through the grace of the Holy Spirit it does speak infallibly, like in this document you have provided where it states that all the faithful must believe as such.

We can not openly disagree with this document or indeed one is in heresy. And Nihil you have not provided any documents that say without a doubt that the Church is infallible. Why do you hold to this?  Though perhaps it is not heresy to say that the Church is infallible as i have yet to see a document of high degree that would have one to believe that those that believe that the church is infallible are in heresy. One can believe without a doubt that the Sky is green without it effecting there faith in God and his kingdom on earth. Something like that anyway. I could be wrong.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

On 4/8/2016, 3:04:27, Nihil Obstat said:

self mutilation is frowned upon by the holy magesterium  banging your head for too long will bruise and perhaps draw blood eventually. lol, but fully kinda like halfly, seriously? Want scruples i can give them to you man.

Dont tread on me. Dont tread on anyone actually, 'fragile, handle with care.'

[Nihil Obstat]

1 hour ago, Tab'le De'Bah-Rye said:

 Want scruples i can give them to you man.

It does not work that way.

[Anomaly]

Nihil,

In Tab's way, I think he said your meme was hurtful. Maybe you can leave him alone. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

On 4/15/2016, 10:03:15, Anomaly said:

Nihil,

In Tab's way, I think he said your meme was hurtful. Maybe you can leave him alone. 

Or say sorry for calling me ignorant. Such generalization is harmful, i'd be the first to admit i am ignorant as to many things in the sense of not knowing but ignorant in general i am not neither deliberately or naturaly.  

When the rich speak all listen and when they fall many hands are there to catch them and laugh at there folly. But the poor ? Was just reading ecclesiasticus, or however you spell it. All good i don't really expect an apology and nor should i and nor should i have enkindled the situation, i neither need to defend God or myself, i have to learn that, 1. God is big enough to defend himself and 2. God will defend me if i am indeed his child. Though of course i still state my case in both the affirmatives but i need not get all defensive and argumentative. So over pride.

Onward Christian souls.

 

God is good.

 

Jesus is LORD! 

But thanks for the back up Anomaly.  i will remember you did this as will the LORD.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye