What kind of gun should I get?

[CatherineM]

That's why I had to leave my rifle in Florida. Himself was afraid he'd use it if he had breakthrough symptoms. 

[Norseman82]

First, happy feast day of St. Gabriel Possenti, the unofficial patron saint of handun owners.

Second, Josh, what experience with firearms do you have?  If little to none, I suggest that you take a training course.  The NRA and most gun shops/ranges offer it.  It may just take up one Saturday of your time.

Another point is to go to a range and rent some handguns (or go with a friend who has the type of gun you are interested in) to find which ones you are comfortable with and can handle well.  Remember, since your purpose is for "emergency defense", you will most likely be nervous and full of adrenaline if you find yourself suddenly hurrying to defend yourself in the middle of the night against an intruder.  You will also want to consider how to store it so you can access it quickly yet have it safely locked away when you are not present.  If your "emergency defense" means when you are away from home, you will also want to get your concealed carry permit.

Also, please factor in what type of dwelling you are in, because bullets can and will travel through walls, which is partially why many recommend a shotgun for home defense.

 

[Gabriela]

1 hour ago, Norseman82 said:

First, happy feast day of St. Gabriel Possenti, the unofficial patron saint of handun owners.

Second, Josh, what experience with firearms do you have?  If little to none, I suggest that you take a training course.  The NRA and most gun shops/ranges offer it.  It may just take up one Saturday of your time.

Another point is to go to a range and rent some handguns (or go with a friend who has the type of gun you are interested in) to find which ones you are comfortable with and can handle well.  Remember, since your purpose is for "emergency defense", you will most likely be nervous and full of adrenaline if you find yourself suddenly hurrying to defend yourself in the middle of the night against an intruder.  You will also want to consider how to store it so you can access it quickly yet have it safely locked away when you are not present.  If your "emergency defense" means when you are away from home, you will also want to get your concealed carry permit.

Also, please factor in what type of dwelling you are in, because bullets can and will travel through walls, which is partially why many recommend a shotgun for home defense.

 

Do shotguns not fire through walls?

[Credo in Deum]

On 2/26/2016, 3:39:42, Nihil Obstat said:

Most people say 12ga shotgun for home defense. Remington 870 is easily modifiable and I believe there should be several shorter barrelled variants, down to whatever is the minimum allowed wherever you are. You could put a light on it, stuff like that. I would recommend against a pistol grip with no stock, because if there is no stock you will probably smack yourself in the face.

I.E. set it up more like this:

And less like this:

 

 

There is debate on whether or not a rifle is ideal for home defense. Lot of variables there, and I am not really qualified to give you a meaningful opinion. I would be willing to argue that a large part of it comes down to how comfortable you are using it. A shotgun is a bit simpler than an AR15. You also have to consider the possibility of overpenetration with a rifle, so carefully consider your environment.

There is always the AR Pistol. 

[Nihil Obstat]

19 hours ago, Gabriela said:

 

2 hours ago, Gabriela said:

Do shotguns not fire through walls?

Not nearly to the same extent. Rifles shoot bullets at an incredibly high velocity. Generally well over the speed of sound. Other things being equal, these will penetrate quite a lot. Shotguns fire heavy projectiles at much slower speeds. It will penetrate walls, yes, but like two or three walls, not two or three houses like some rifles will.

26 minutes ago, Credo in Deum said:

There is always the AR Pistol. 

Lol. Yes, yes there is.

[Papist]

High caliber to be sure to drop the aggressor. Home defense rounds.  If all possible, get a permit to conceal. Know your state's gun laws. 

[CatherineM]

If you're worried about shot gun rounds going through the walls, load it with bird shot instead of buck shot. 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Norseman82 said:

First, happy feast day of St. Gabriel Possenti, the unofficial patron saint of handun owners.

Second, Josh, what experience with firearms do you have?  If little to none, I suggest that you take a training course.  The NRA and most gun shops/ranges offer it.  It may just take up one Saturday of your time.

Another point is to go to a range and rent some handguns (or go with a friend who has the type of gun you are interested in) to find which ones you are comfortable with and can handle well.  Remember, since your purpose is for "emergency defense", you will most likely be nervous and full of adrenaline if you find yourself suddenly hurrying to defend yourself in the middle of the night against an intruder.  You will also want to consider how to store it so you can access it quickly yet have it safely locked away when you are not present.  If your "emergency defense" means when you are away from home, you will also want to get your concealed carry permit.

Also, please factor in what type of dwelling you are in, because bullets can and will travel through walls, which is partially why many recommend a shotgun for home defense.

 

Thanks for the advice Norseman. I have actually no experience with firearms. I know it's pathetic but I've never even fired one. I will definitely look into a training course and getting to the range to shoot. Thanks for the insight. God bless.

14 hours ago, Credo in Deum said:

There is always the AR Pistol. 

I like this.

[PhuturePriest]

It may come as a surprise since I'm for somewhat heavy gun regulation, but I grew up in rural Kansas and, consequently, I know lots about guns. I was shooting a gun just last week in my yard, actually.

It doesn't count as hypocrisy because it was both a 22. and pink.

Anyway, one thing to think about is noise. Many people get 9mms, shotguns, and heavy rifles for home defense without considering how much noise they make. Keep in mind you are in a closed space, meaning what are already really loud guns will become even louder. You run the risk of getting substantial hearing damage by firing even a 9mm in a house, but especially heavier rounds like 12 gauges, 40. calibers, etc. My dad's Glock 27 (a 40.) will make your ears ring severely after just one shot. I can't imagine how loud it would be in a closed space.

They're made fun of by gun enthusiasts whose masculinity depends on the caliber they're packing, but 22.s really are great for home defense. They don't penetrate through the whole body, but they do have a tendency to bounce around inside a man's body and tear up vital organs.

Ultimately, a bullet is a bullet. I don't care who you are, getting shot is unpleasant irrespective of the caliber. Look into Ruger and Smith and Wesson. I'd recommend Walther as well.

[Nihil Obstat]

23 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

 

2 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

It may come as a surprise since I'm for somewhat heavy gun regulation, but I grew up in rural Kansas and, consequently, I know lots about guns. I was shooting a gun just last week in my yard, actually.

It doesn't count as hypocrisy because it was both a 22. and pink.

Anyway, one thing to think about is noise. Many people get 9mms, shotguns, and heavy rifles for home defense without considering how much noise they make. Keep in mind you are in a closed space, meaning what are already really loud guns will become even louder. You run the risk of getting substantial hearing damage by firing even a 9mm in a house, but especially heavier rounds like 12 gauges, 40. calibers, etc. My dad's Glock 27 (a 40.) will make your ears ring severely after just one shot. I can't imagine how loud it would be in a closed space.

They're made fun of by gun enthusiasts whose masculinity depends on the caliber they're packing, but 22.s really are great for home defense. They don't penetrate through the whole body, but they do have a tendency to bounce around inside a man's body and tear up vital organs.

Ultimately, a bullet is a bullet. I don't care who you are, getting shot is unpleasant irrespective of the caliber. Look into Ruger and Smith and Wesson. I'd recommend Walther as well.

One thing to consider is the stopping power of a .22. Yes it will cause serious damage and it can quite easily be fatal. But you do want to be able to put down the threat with as few bullets as possible. Modern hollow point 9mm pistol rounds are getting extremely good at that, because of their expansion and fragmentation potential. And then there is the hydrostatic shock theory, but I will not get into that.

I am sure you can get good hollow-point 5.56/.223 for an AR. The soldiers cannot use them because of the Geneva Convention, but they are very effective for home defense.

[PhuturePriest]

11 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

One thing to consider is the stopping power of a .22. Yes it will cause serious damage and it can quite easily be fatal. But you do want to be able to put down the threat with as few bullets as possible. Modern hollow point 9mm pistol rounds are getting extremely good at that, because of their expansion and fragmentation potential. And then there is the hydrostatic shock theory, but I will not get into that.

I am sure you can get good hollow-point 5.56/.223 for an AR. The soldiers cannot use them because of the Geneva Convention, but they are very effective for home defense.

My dad has hollow points for his Glock 27. Very powerful, very terrifying. You can pretty much guarantee any shot to the mid region of the torso will be fatal, and any non-lethal area will be debilitating for life. They really only have a justified use if someone is on meth and essentially can't die unless you shower them with heavy bullets.

 I'm always wary when people walk around with hollow points as if they're no big deal. They don't recognize or respect the destruction they can deliver.

[Nihil Obstat]

16 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

My dad has hollow points for his Glock 27. Very powerful, very terrifying. You can pretty much guarantee any shot to the mid region of the torso will be fatal, and any non-lethal area will be debilitating for life. They really only have a justified use if someone is on meth and essentially can't die unless you shower them with heavy bullets.

 I'm always wary when people walk around with hollow points as if they're no big deal. They don't recognize or respect the destruction they can deliver.

Well, I would say that anyone who concealed-carries a pistol probably should have hollow point bullets. You absolutely do not want a FMJ bullet to overpenetrate and hit a bystander. Better to absolutely annihilate your non-innocent party than to possibly kill someone who is innocent.

Obviously you never never shoot, never even think about drawing your gun, unless you are prepared to use lethal force. But if lethal force is justified, make it quick and decisive. That cannot be left up to chance.

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Nihil Obstat

[Gabriela]

Hm. This is all very interesting to me. I'm pro-gun ownership (for the record), and my father is a diehard lifelong member of and donor to the NRA. When my employer announced that they instituted a new policy against bringing guns to work, I thought they must all be liberal morons, cuz we're in the middle of Crimetown, USA.

I say all that cuz I don't want you to take this next question in the wrong way, i.e., as an attack on gun ownership or self defense: If God forbid somebody should invade your home, don't you have a responsibility as a Catholic to do as little damage as possible to the person (while still stopping them from doing any damage to you, of course)? I mean, you must have some kind of obligation not to kill them if that's at all possible, no?

[Nihil Obstat]

6 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

Hm. This is all very interesting to me. I'm pro-gun ownership (for the record), and my father is a diehard lifelong member of and donor to the NRA. When my employer announced that they instituted a new policy against bringing guns to work, I thought they must all be liberal morons, cuz we're in the middle of Crimetown, USA.

I say all that cuz I don't want you to take this next question in the wrong way, i.e., as an attack on gun ownership or self defense: If God forbid somebody should invade your home, don't you have a responsibility as a Catholic to do as little damage as possible to the person (while still stopping them from doing any damage to you, of course)? I mean, you must have some kind of obligation not to kill them if that's at all possible, no?

Well of course you have a responsibility to protect your family, and can protect yourself licitly. I do think that there is a coordinating responsibility to respond proportionally, reasonably.

In the case of firearms there is no such thing as non-lethal use. You will know this already. If you shoot, you shoot centre mass. Anything else is irresponsible. Centre mass is often lethal, but this is a secondary concern. Primary concern is incapacitating the assailant effectively and while minimizing danger to innocents. So you shoot centre mass, and you do so with a weapon that is appropriate to the situation.

I think more important than the specific gun and bullet you are choosing is knowing when and how to use it responsibly. You do not start popping off because someone you do not recognize knocks on the door. You do not draw on someone who does not reasonably present an imminent mortal threat. Someone breaks down your door with a crowbar, probably shoot. Someone eggs your house, file a police report. I would argue that if you respond to a threat disproportionately, e.g. some dumb kid throws a rock through your window or your jerk neighbour came to your door yelling, and you pull out the shotty and start blasting, absolutely you are seriously blameworthy. Mortally sinful in all sorts of ways.

But if you have to shoot, shoot centre mass with a bullet that is generally recognized as being effective against human threats. Because if you have to shoot, you have to neutralize that threat quickly and decisively.

[Gabriela]

49 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Well of course you have a responsibility to protect your family, and can protect yourself licitly. I do think that there is a coordinating responsibility to respond proportionally, reasonably.

In the case of firearms there is no such thing as non-lethal use. You will know this already. If you shoot, you shoot centre mass. Anything else is irresponsible. Centre mass is often lethal, but this is a secondary concern. Primary concern is incapacitating the assailant effectively and while minimizing danger to innocents. So you shoot centre mass, and you do so with a weapon that is appropriate to the situation.

I think more important than the specific gun and bullet you are choosing is knowing when and how to use it responsibly. You do not start popping off because someone you do not recognize knocks on the door. You do not draw on someone who does not reasonably present an imminent mortal threat. Someone breaks down your door with a crowbar, probably shoot. Someone eggs your house, file a police report. I would argue that if you respond to a threat disproportionately, e.g. some dumb kid throws a rock through your window or your jerk neighbour came to your door yelling, and you pull out the shotty and start blasting, absolutely you are seriously blameworthy. Mortally sinful in all sorts of ways.

But if you have to shoot, shoot centre mass with a bullet that is generally recognized as being effective against human threats. Because if you have to shoot, you have to neutralize that threat quickly and decisively.

I see your point, but wouldn't using a less dangerous bullet—one that will stop an intruder, but not kill, when fired center mass—be better than using one that is likely to kill? I mean from a Catholic moral perspective.

I'm talking about home intrusions. For concealed carry, I totally see why it would be (both morally and practically) better to carry hollow points.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Gabriela