Pope suggests contraceptives could be used

[Nihil Obstat]

3 minutes ago, Peace said:

I dunno. Somtimes I think it would be better for Pope Francis to speak with greater clarity too.

I don't think that the gravity of a subject makes it more appropriate for an open letter. I might think that my neighbor needs to stop cheating on his wife. That is serious. That doesn't mean my rebuke should be more amenable to a public letter than by rebuking him privately.

In this particular case, what do you think is the benefit of making the lecture public?　It adds a greater shame factor therefore the Pope is likely to speak more clearly in the future? Somehow I doubt that. 

The letter to me just seems like something else that will cause division among traditionalists and us attenders of the NO. 

But I guess the open letter is cool. Letting folks speak their mind does seem to be something that Pope Francis encourages. 

Well, I think that the rationale would be that since the issue itself is public and affects essentially all Catholic laypersons, it should likewise be addressed in a public manner. Ideally through a clarification - and some would argue an unqualified retraction - from Pope Francis. So it is a public response to a public comment, requesting a public action. To me that makes sense, and in no way does it detract from the value and prudence of private correction.

[Peace]

1 minute ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Well, I think that the rationale would be that since the issue itself is public and affects essentially all Catholic laypersons, it should likewise be addressed in a public manner. Ideally through a clarification - and some would argue an unqualified retraction - from Pope Francis. So it is a public response to a public comment, requesting a public action. To me that makes sense, and in no way does it detract from the value and prudence of private correction.

I see. I guess I didn't read it as him asking Pope Francis to issue a correction. I thought the main jist was "take your job as a teacher more seriously and speak more clearly." I didn't see the need to go into all of that publicly.

If he just wrote "I think what you wrote about contraception was wrong and here are my reasons why" I would be cool with it. 

But then again, if he went down that route, he would have to explain why Pope Francis is wrong, and that becomes more difficult (see the debate in this thread). 

[Nihil Obstat]

39 minutes ago, Peace said:

I see. I guess I didn't read it as him asking Pope Francis to issue a correction. I thought the main jist was "take your job as a teacher more seriously and speak more clearly." I didn't see the need to go into all of that publicly.

If he just wrote "I think what you wrote about contraception was wrong and here are my reasons why" I would be cool with it. 

But then again, if he went down that route, he would have to explain why Pope Francis is wrong, and that becomes more difficult (see the debate in this thread). 

I kind of read that as implied or even entailed, just from my perspective within the traditionalist milieu.

[Amppax]

2 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I do not think Rorate is really known for leaks, although I guess one could ask. I believe this priest has written for them before. (EDIT: A quick check, which I had missed before, indicates that Fr. Cipolla is actually the one who posted the article.)

There is merit in open letters. Whether or not it is warranted in this case is really more a reflection of your belief as to whether or not the situation itself is worthy of concern, more so than whether the idea of the letter itself is problematic. Paul corrected Peter publicly.

The only thing I dislike about this kind of open letter is that it is a priest taking it upon himself to publicly correct the Pope. I think something like this is more appropriate from a Cardinal or Bishop. Then again, if I'm remembering correctly, Catherine of Siena rebuked the Pope of her own time, and she was lay. I don't remember if that was a public or private correction. 

So I suppose my initial take is that I have no problem with the correction per se, simply a problem with who's making it. 

[Nihil Obstat]

22 minutes ago, Amppax said:

The only thing I dislike about this kind of open letter is that it is a priest taking it upon himself to publicly correct the Pope. I think something like this is more appropriate from a Cardinal or Bishop. Then again, if I'm remembering correctly, Catherine of Siena rebuked the Pope of her own time, and she was lay. I don't remember if that was a public or private correction. 

So I suppose my initial take is that I have no problem with the correction per se, simply a problem with who's making it. 

Yeah, I understand that. But at some point a priest like this one must think to himself "yeah, a cardinal should be the one who does this, but none have." Not sure there would be a hard and fast rule as to when that becomes a valid concern, but certainly eventually that fact becomes relevant.

[StMichael]

On February 19, 2016 at 6:22:29 PM, Nihil Obstat said:

Look, we should not beat around the bush here.

IF the pope said that couples could licitly use contraceptives to avoid children during this health scare, THEN the pope was wrong. Perhaps he misunderstood, perhaps he misspoke. Perhaps he was inculpable for the mistake, and perhaps he did not say it at all. I certainly hope that is not what he said.

But IF what he said is as I described above, THEN he is wrong, period.

Do not let yourself be deceived. We cannot afford further weakening of Catholic moral teaching.

Would give this props, but being moderated now for 4 months for no reason whatsoever.

Regardless, Pope Francis, and I quote from Father Jonathan Morris who is seen regularly on TV, "is a handful."

[Amppax]

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/popes-comments-on-contraception-in-accord-with-magisterium-philosophers-say/#.Vs-HHVsrLC1

Presented simply as further interesting commentary on the issue. Peace and Nihil, you'll note that Fr. Gahl (the philosopher in question) teaches at Santa Croce, like some of the other scholars I had mentioned.