Political Question

[Catholictothecore]

Hi, everyone! First post in a long time. 

I live in Minnesota, and our caucus is coming up March 1st. I'm having a bit of a...quandary.

When I first started voting in 2004, I was living at home, and my mind was pretty much made up. Voting seemed easy. But now it isn't so straight forward. Then, an abusive father who was a successful political pundit told me that I had to vote Republican because it was quite simply the only thing any catholic of good moral conscious could do. God hated democrats, and "most" republicans (IE, ones who didn't agree with him) because the Constitution itself was sacrosanct. He has come a long way in the past 12 years. We have made peace with each other, but politics is still a sore spot. But it also one we have to dip into now and then, simply because I am who I am, and he is who he is, and we are going to talk about politics.   

These days, I find that my conscious has no problem voting Democratic. Quite frankly, where I stand on 90% of issues is solidly Democratic. Even though the Republicans are the "pro-Life" Party, the simple fact is there are many more issues we face as a nation than abortion. There will never be a perfect candidate for president. Or any other elected office. And there is much more to all this than presidential elections. But it simply seems to me that the better men and woman are democrats. Please don't troll on this. Just my humble opinion from observation. (FYI, I am not a Clinton supporter. Read what you want there. But I do view Clinton with the same...dislike that I view Donald Trump. Let's just not go there.)

Here's my problem, and here's why I'm posting on Phatmass for the first time since the 14th century, lol. 

Like I said, things are getting better with my Dad. I am proof positive that forgiveness can change lives, because my Mom and I are the only ones, I think, who ever did forgive my dad. But he is changed. That doesn't mean he isn't still opinionated. Recently, I have informed him of the fact that I am a democrat. Perspective; I would have had an easier time telling him I was a homosexual. I am so not, but there comparison is made. So, there's that. And then there's this. 

So often, I feel like American Catholics act like we are a political party of own. We are not. We are a faith, and we are THE faith. We are the only church who has the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ present on our altars. In a way, something as...bloodthirsty as party politics is beneath us. We go about boldly Preaching Holy Apostolic Truth. Not the Gospel According to Whoever. And our faith includes the fact that we have our free will. Which, as Americans in the 21st century, we have AMPLE opportunity to express. So, I pray, and I do, especially ever even numbered year when I go behind a little curtain and place that all important check on ballot. 

It would be easier on the conscious if the party I agreed with one so much weren't so vehemently pro-abortion. Again, "there are more things under heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." I am posting this not wanting a flame war. I mean no one disrespect, and I hope no one feels that way. I was wondering if there were any other Catholic democrats out there who wanted to talk about the particular mental challenges this combination provides. 

PS. There are so many states with caucuses or primaries in the next two weeks. I don't know who and how you plan to vote. But there is this. There are 535 electable seats in our federal government. I remember hearing something like 490 some are up this year. The face of our nation could be completely different this time next year. So, I say a psalm here, and I offer it as prayer. This is particularly fitting in the wake of Justice Scalia's death. I honestly think of this every time I vote. 

Psalm 72. 

1Give the king Your judgments, O God,
            And Your righteousness to the king’s son.

      2May he judge Your people with righteousness
            And Your afflicted with justice.

      3Let the mountains bring peace to the people,
            And the hills, in righteousness.

      4May he vindicate the afflicted of the people,
            Save the children of the needy
            And crush the oppressor.

      5Let them fear You while the sun endures,
            And as long as the moon, throughout all generations.

      6May he come down like rain upon the mown grass,
            Like showers that water the earth.

      7In his days may the righteous flourish,
            And abundance of peace till the moon is no more.

Peace be with you all, 

CatholictotheCore

[Nihil Obstat]

With abortion, homosexual marriage and related issues, euthanasia on the horizon, embryonic stem cell research, aggressive pushing of contraceptives in international aid, promotion and funding of contraceptives at home, uncompromising secularism, and militant hostility to the Church's authority, I think a Catholic is being both willfully ignorant and shockingly misguided if he thinks that the Democratic party is an acceptable entity to support, not to mention, God help us, the socialist-in-chief Bernie.

If your conscience and prayer really convicts you in that particular way then fine, do not support Republicans. Whatever. They are mostly imbeciles too, although as I have been saying I think there are notable exceptions this round (not Trump). But if the Church in the US has reached the point that Bernie could ever be considered anything but an enemy of the Church and a slave to sin and decadence, then seriously, God help us.

[Maggyie]

On many many issues I am waaaay closer to Democrats than Republicans. The GOP is full of candidates who love torture, revenge-driven killings (the death penalty) and racism. Virtually none of them care about social justice.

Remember at the end when Jesus asks about the "least of these" he is not going to be interested in your nuanced explanation about how there are many other issues.  I think he will be disgusted by excuses.

When you talk about how it would be "easier on your conscience" and mention "mental challenges" you mean that you feel a twinge of guilt voting for someone who is part of a machinery of death that grinds up weak, helpless infants. You should feel that twinge. Pay attention to it. 

Honest reflection on the gospel is lethal to hardness of heart. 

[Amppax]

There are multiple ways, I think, to be faithful to Catholic social teaching in politics. Unfortunately, neither our modern Republican or Democrats are a good examples of that. I think the Republican party is much closer, but I could potentially see how someone would come to the opposite conclusion. I think it's naive to say that the better people are Democrats, but whatever, you said not to go there, I won't. 

I find it somewhat frustrating, in talking to many of my "social justice" Catholic friends, i.e. the ones who've read more of the Compendium than the Catechism, is that they view the Democratic party's domestic platform, apart from problematic stances on abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, etc., as the only possible way to enact social teaching in society. Which is just not true. Though I disagree with some, maybe even a lot, of what he says, I think someone such as Fr. Sirico is a faithful Catholic, and he's about as free market as you get (well, he's not quite as far as Thomas Woods or Jeffrey Tucker, at least as far as I can tell, but that's a different can o' worms). 

Anyway, I used to think like you, though I never formally supported the Democrats. I was, in the past, alway conflicted voting Republican, because I felt like a single issue voter (which, in fairness, I kind of was). This election I'll be conflicted for different reasons. Or I just won't vote, who knows. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Ok I'm not American. But in my own country, as a Catholic I just can't vote for the more liberal parties because of abortion / euthanasia- even though there are problems in the other one too. Governments are not perfect. But a government that kills its own young and elderly.... And calls that "choice"... There's something especially twisted in that. I just can't stand before God and explain to Him that I'm sorry I voted for those who support His little ones being crushed in the womb - so that there would be better economic or international policies etc. Yes there are moral issues there too that are important but...if murder is such a serious sin, how serious must it be to kill infants. 

For those who think this is single issue voting... http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column/the-right-to-life-is-not-single-issue-politics-life-is-a-lens-through-which-we-view-every-issue-3357/

Edited February 17, 2016 by MarysLittleFlower

[DominicanHeart]

Yeah I have no idea who to trust and vote for this year 

[Socrates]

I'm generally avoiding posting on here for Lent, but felt this was an important issue that should be addressed (and it's a Sunday, so it's all good, right?).

Quite frankly, don't think there's any way a Catholic could in good conscience support the Democrat Party or its candidates, at least not on the national level.  

If you are Catholic and support this party either a) your conscience is poorly formed regarding moral issues, and you need to educate yourself and correctly form it or b) you are misinformed about the Democratic Party and its policies.

There's the obvious issue of abortion--the direct deliberate killing of innocent babies in the womb--the support of which is written into the party's national platform.  They don't just tolerate this evil, but oppose any restrictions on it at the state level, and force others to support it through taxes.  This is similar for other moral issues, such as using the law to enforce support of immoral practices such as homosexual "marriage," and forcing religious organizations against their will to pay for coverage of contraceptives and abortifacients.

And, especially after Scalia's death, the effects of another Democrat president's nominations of SCOTUS justices and federal judges would be absolutely nothing short of catastrophic.  Believe me, the results will not be favorable to Catholics, and you will regret it.

And, while there's not time to go into the whole debate, I don't believe the socialistic and Marxist social and economic policies pushed by the Dems and many Republicans will do anything to help the poor in the long wrong.  Forcing an immense and ever-growing debt on the young and future generations is not in the best interests of anybody but those who profit from it by political power.

Also, the massive, ever-expanding federal government, unrestrained by constitutional limits on power, that Democrats and many Republicans favor, is extremely dangerous to our freedoms, and is contrary to the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, which favors dealing with issues at the local level rather than big centralized government trying to run everything.

And I shouldn't need to remind you that socialism has been strongly, soundly and repeatedly condemned by the Church.

There is absolutely nothing about the Democratic Party worthy of support.

This is not to say the Republicans are all good and wonderful either.  Like your father, I have serious problems with Democratic politicians, as well as most of the Republicans.  Frankly, I have serious problems with all the current presidential candidates except Cruz, though the two Dem nominees are by far the worst.

(As for the "racism" charge brought up by some, however, I'm not aware of any serious mainstream GOP politician pushing policies that are actually in fact racist.  That's just bogus political bs.)

If you can't in good conscience support any candidates of either party, then don't vote, or write in a good third-party candidate or something.  (Not always the most prudent choice, but that gets into a whole other discussion).  Just please don't actively vote for the greater evil.

 

You may want to do some seriously reflection and ask yourself if it's really your Catholic moral conscience that's pressing you to support the Democratic Party.

Or is it rather rebellion or anger against your abusive father, peer pressure, or media influence?

On 2/16/2016, 11:34:17, Maggyie said:

Remember at the end when Jesus asks about the "least of these" he is not going to be interested in your nuanced explanation about how there are many other issues.  I think he will be disgusted by excuses.

I think He will be far more interested in what you did personally yourself for them, rather than which politician you pulled a lever (or pushed a touch-screen) for.

Not that who you vote for is completely irrelevant, but voting for a politician who wants government to borrow/spend more of someone else's money =/= charity.

[Peace]

47 minutes ago, Socrates said:

I'm generally avoiding posting on here for Lent, but felt this was an important issue that should be addressed (and it's a Sunday, so it's all good, right?).

Conservatism over penance? Why am I not surprised? J/K

[4588686]

Vote Democrat

Also, obviously, you should just ignore Socrates' mostly incoherent babbling

Edited February 22, 2016 by Hasan