MarysLittleFlower Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I read some St Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross, St Therese, Blessed Elizabeth... And I'm still wondering how do we define Carmelite spirituality? What distinguishes it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicanHeart Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 The fact that they are the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, DominicanHeart said: The fact that they are the best Maybe you could be renamed CarmeliteHeart? Edited February 11, 2016 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Lots of time for meditation and bad liturgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enitharmon Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 This is how Carmelites themselves describe it (source; I would also add a strong Marian devotion): Carmelite spirituality is characterised by an intense thirst for an immediate and direct experience of God. Reduced to its most fundamental expression, Carmelite spirituality is centred on prayer, understood as loving friendship with God, and contemplation as the free gift of God. Hence, Carmelite spirituality is focused on attention to one’s relationship with Jesus. This is expressed in various ways in the major sources of Carmelite spirituality, such as the Rule of St. Albert, the writings of the founders of Discalced Carmel Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross, and indeed in the writings of all our Carmelite saints. In the Rule of St. Albert, the Christian character of Carmelite spirituality is clearly expressed as living ‘a life of allegiance to Jesus Christ’. This involves a gradual and progressive conversion and transformation – a putting on of the mind and heart of Jesus. Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross, speak of prayer and contemplation as ‘friendship with God’ and ‘union with God’ respectively. Prayer and contemplation, as a relationship with God, in and through loving friendship with Jesus Christ, is not a technique or one of the many daily activities, but embracing of one’s whole life. For the Carmelite then there is no experience in one’s life that is outside the ambit of relationship with God. Together with prayer and contemplation, Carmelite spirituality emphasises the doctrine of the Divine Indwelling. Both Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross teach us that God, the Blessed Trinity, dwells within the human person. Hence, one need not go out of self in search for God but enter progressively ever deeper within oneself to be with God who dwells at the very centre of our being. St. Teresa speaks of this journey within as an itinerary through a castle with seven mansions. St. John of the Cross hymns this reality: “What more do you want, O soul! And what else do you search for outside, when within yourself you possess your riches, delights, satisfactions, fullness and kingdom – your Beloved whom you desire and seek? Be joyful and gladdened in your interior recollection with Him, for you have Him so close to you. Desire Him there, adore Him there. Do not go in pursuit of Him outside yourself. You will only become distracted and wearied thereby, and you shall not find Him, or enjoy Him more securely, or sooner, or more intimately than by seeking Him within you.” (S.C. 1:8) Interiority and recollection, then, are at the very heart of Carmelite spirituality. In order to foster and facilitate relationship with God, through prayer and contemplation, Carmelite spirituality proposes certain means, both personal and communal, namely meditation on the word of God, liturgy, silence and solitude, and asceticism. The Rule of St. Albert urges an unceasing pondering of the Law of the Lord in Scripture and the strengthening of one’s heart with holy thoughts, so that the word of God may abound in one’s heart and lips, and guide all one’s actions. The Rule also exhorts Carmelites to come together daily for the celebration of the sacred liturgy. Carmelite spirituality proposes silence and solitude as necessary pre-requisites for prayer and contemplation. Silence refers not only to external noise but also to the stilling of one’s internal noises. Silence is the condition for listening attentively to the still small voice of God. Solitude provides the ambience where one may be alone so as to focus more attentively on the Beloved. Solitude then is not primarily separation or isolation from others, but a place of privileged encounter with the Beloved. Asceticism is the means of freeing self from the tyranny of self-will, simplifying one’s life, and preserving all of one’s energy for journeying to God. For St. John of the Cross, the main expression of asceticism involves a radical detachment from inordinate or disordered desires and appetites. Detachment is a way of prioritising God above all creatures. As such, it witnesses to the primacy and all sufficiency of God. Asceticism is not only at the service of a deeper life with God, but it is also geared to the demands of the apostolic ministry. Although Carmelite spirituality highly esteems prayer and contemplation these are always in service of the apostolate. Hence, integral to Carmelite spirituality is apostolic service to the Church. This aspect is particularly highlighted by St. Teresa. For St. Teresa, while prayer and contemplation are paramount, they are not ends in themselves but are orientated to the support, welfare, and apostolic fruitfulness of all those engaged in the work of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. Carmelite spirituality, then, is not simply about self salvation, but a way of co-operating with God in bringing about God’s reign on earth. Finally Carmelite spirituality teaches that authentic prayer and contemplation is accompanied by and promotes growth in the human and theological virtues. This leads to a flowering in the Carmelite of the two-fold gospel commandment of love of God and love of neighbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Thank you! that's such a beautiful way to live with Our Lord, makes me want to be a Carmelite, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 2 hours ago, enitharmon said: This is how Carmelites themselves describe it (source; I would also add a strong Marian devotion): Carmelite spirituality is characterised by an intense thirst for an immediate and direct experience of God. Reduced to its most fundamental expression, Carmelite spirituality is centred on prayer, understood as loving friendship with God, and contemplation as the free gift of God. Hence, Carmelite spirituality is focused on attention to one’s relationship with Jesus. This is expressed in various ways in the major sources of Carmelite spirituality, such as the Rule of St. Albert, the writings of the founders of Discalced Carmel Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross, and indeed in the writings of all our Carmelite saints. In the Rule of St. Albert, the Christian character of Carmelite spirituality is clearly expressed as living ‘a life of allegiance to Jesus Christ’. This involves a gradual and progressive conversion and transformation – a putting on of the mind and heart of Jesus. Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross, speak of prayer and contemplation as ‘friendship with God’ and ‘union with God’ respectively. Prayer and contemplation, as a relationship with God, in and through loving friendship with Jesus Christ, is not a technique or one of the many daily activities, but embracing of one’s whole life. For the Carmelite then there is no experience in one’s life that is outside the ambit of relationship with God. Together with prayer and contemplation, Carmelite spirituality emphasises the doctrine of the Divine Indwelling. Both Sts. Teresa and John of the Cross teach us that God, the Blessed Trinity, dwells within the human person. Hence, one need not go out of self in search for God but enter progressively ever deeper within oneself to be with God who dwells at the very centre of our being. St. Teresa speaks of this journey within as an itinerary through a castle with seven mansions. St. John of the Cross hymns this reality: “What more do you want, O soul! And what else do you search for outside, when within yourself you possess your riches, delights, satisfactions, fullness and kingdom – your Beloved whom you desire and seek? Be joyful and gladdened in your interior recollection with Him, for you have Him so close to you. Desire Him there, adore Him there. Do not go in pursuit of Him outside yourself. You will only become distracted and wearied thereby, and you shall not find Him, or enjoy Him more securely, or sooner, or more intimately than by seeking Him within you.” (S.C. 1:8) Interiority and recollection, then, are at the very heart of Carmelite spirituality. In order to foster and facilitate relationship with God, through prayer and contemplation, Carmelite spirituality proposes certain means, both personal and communal, namely meditation on the word of God, liturgy, silence and solitude, and asceticism. The Rule of St. Albert urges an unceasing pondering of the Law of the Lord in Scripture and the strengthening of one’s heart with holy thoughts, so that the word of God may abound in one’s heart and lips, and guide all one’s actions. The Rule also exhorts Carmelites to come together daily for the celebration of the sacred liturgy. Carmelite spirituality proposes silence and solitude as necessary pre-requisites for prayer and contemplation. Silence refers not only to external noise but also to the stilling of one’s internal noises. Silence is the condition for listening attentively to the still small voice of God. Solitude provides the ambience where one may be alone so as to focus more attentively on the Beloved. Solitude then is not primarily separation or isolation from others, but a place of privileged encounter with the Beloved. Asceticism is the means of freeing self from the tyranny of self-will, simplifying one’s life, and preserving all of one’s energy for journeying to God. For St. John of the Cross, the main expression of asceticism involves a radical detachment from inordinate or disordered desires and appetites. Detachment is a way of prioritising God above all creatures. As such, it witnesses to the primacy and all sufficiency of God. Asceticism is not only at the service of a deeper life with God, but it is also geared to the demands of the apostolic ministry. Although Carmelite spirituality highly esteems prayer and contemplation these are always in service of the apostolate. Hence, integral to Carmelite spirituality is apostolic service to the Church. This aspect is particularly highlighted by St. Teresa. For St. Teresa, while prayer and contemplation are paramount, they are not ends in themselves but are orientated to the support, welfare, and apostolic fruitfulness of all those engaged in the work of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. Carmelite spirituality, then, is not simply about self salvation, but a way of co-operating with God in bringing about God’s reign on earth. Finally Carmelite spirituality teaches that authentic prayer and contemplation is accompanied by and promotes growth in the human and theological virtues. This leads to a flowering in the Carmelite of the two-fold gospel commandment of love of God and love of neighbour. sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reminiscere Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On Wed Feb 10 2016 21:48:23 GMT-0500, Gabriela said: Lots of time for meditation and bad liturgy. Some of tbe most Some of the most beautiful and truly heavenly liturgy I have seen has been at Carmel. I don't know what you meant by bad liturgy, Graciela, or where you visited. I'm using my phone and spell check is giving me problems, as you can see. Gabriela* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 3 hours ago, reminiscere said: Some of tbe most Some of the most beautiful and truly heavenly liturgy I have seen has been at Carmel. I don't know what you meant by bad liturgy, Graciela, or where you visited. I'm using my phone and spell check is giving me problems, as you can see. Gabriela* I'm thinking the liturgy must be very beautiful if its one of the Carmels with the FSSP was that the Carmel you were in or did it have the Novus Ordo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNJM Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Gorgeous description! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicanHeart Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 On February 10, 2016 at 9:42:26 PM, MarysLittleFlower said: Maybe you could be renamed CarmeliteHeart? Can I change my name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, DominicanHeart said: Can I change my name? Yes, it's possible. However, I'm pretty sure it's something that you'll need to ask dUSt to do for you. I'm not sure if the regular Mediators of Meh are authorized to do a name change. I couldn't tell whether you are seriously intending to change your name, or if you were just asking out of interest. If you're seriously wanting to do this, I'd suggest taking some time to be sure this is what you want to do, so you don't change your mind later. Edited February 13, 2016 by IgnatiusofLoyola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicanHeart Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 2 hours ago, IgnatiusofLoyola said: Yes, it's possible. However, I'm pretty sure it's something that you'll need to ask dUSt to do for you. I'm not sure if the regular Mediators of Meh are authorized to do a name change. I couldn't tell whether you are seriously intending to change your name, or if you were just asking out of interest. If you're seriously wanting to do this, I'd suggest taking some time to be sure this is what you want to do, so you don't change your mind later. I am partially serious and partially curious as to whether or not it was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) On February 10, 2016 2:40:52 PM, MarysLittleFlower said: I read some St Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross, St Therese, Blessed Elizabeth... And I'm still wondering how do we define Carmelite spirituality? What distinguishes it? lots of skulls lying around... On February 10, 2016 8:17:32 PM, DominicanHeart said: The fact that they are the best Anathema!!!!! Edited February 14, 2016 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/12/2016, 8:01:04, reminiscere said: Some of tbe most Some of the most beautiful and truly heavenly liturgy I have seen has been at Carmel. I don't know what you meant by bad liturgy, Graciela, or where you visited. I'm using my phone and spell check is giving me problems, as you can see. Gabriela* I won't say where I visited, but it was truly disappointing. When I got home I called my SD, who is a Carmelite formator, and she said that's pretty normal. Because St. Teresa wanted the sisters to have as much time as possible for contemplation and meditation, she really stripped down the liturgy so that it won't eat up too much time in the day. Chant is rare, and when it's there, it tends to be a single tone and pretty quick. Probably the Jesus + Mary Carmels are different, but from what my SD says, Carmelite liturgy is usually very... erm... sparse. 18 hours ago, DominicanHeart said: Can I change my name? Yes, but if you ask a Mediator of Meh, get ready to be harassed and teased and otherwise abused for a month before they finally concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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