Under what circumstances will a congregation be closed?

[Mary Catherine]

Dear sisters on the forum,

As some of you may already know, I visited a new Benedictine congregation in Australia last November.

I really enjoyed their life, and desire to look into them. However, my SD suggested I pray and discern until Easter, waiting them to become more stablised. He also suggested me to learn something useful during this waiting period, because now the sisters do not have specific apostolate work to do.

Also, I have heard that there is a huge risk to join such a congregation, for if they didn't get enough vocations they will be closed within 3 years. Now they have only 2 sisters. My questions is , how many vocations does a congregation need to avoid being closed? 

[katherineH]

I don't believe there is a clear rule or law stating that a community has to have a certain number of sisters to remain "open."  Many communities start off with just one sister (often the foundress) and stay that way for several years until vocations begin.  Is what you said about them closing within 3 years specific to their community, or communities in general? If that is something you have heard about the specific community, I think it is worth looking into and asking about. 

There are many threads on here about new communities (including the start-up process and discernment) so it may be helpful for you to flip through the archives and see what people have said in the past. Welcome to PhatMass by the way 

[nikita92]

I look at it in this way...(which isnt the more formal procedural/formula that you might be seeking a answer to)

Here goes... 

Newly founded communitues have started with just a few to a small handful of women. Like everything else, it takes time to established a new community that has a very good chance at becoming viable as time progresses! There is no guarantee that communities will flourish and become long life lasting. (for example, "Our Lady of the Angels Monastery" was at one time, overflowing with vocations and even had to turn away eager young women because they didnt have the room for them all. However at present, they didnt have enough Nuns to be able to fill all the required positions within the monastery..thus needing to import another community to help out for the time being in order to accept more interested candidates)

So..who knows how the tide will turn with that Benedictine congregation you are interested in! Asking the question of one's self..do you want to join a established community with ALOT of (young?) women, or is having a very small number more appealing instead. What is the Worst that can happen? Nobody wants to join any Congregation/communitity with the thought they will be leaving (due to circumtsnces beyond their control) before they make solemn vows. And yet, transfers happen all the time. However....nothing ventured, nothing gained! Weigh the pros and cons..do you're homework..and many blessings to you on your journey!

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

I'm surprised they are allowed to stay open with only 2 sisters because according to the current norms a community must have no less than 3. That is probably why they've been given a time limit. Also, if it is a Benedictine monastery it isn't the same as a congregation.

 

[Nunsuch]

Sister Mary Catharine said what I was about to say--the normal canonical requirement is a minimum of 3 members. Benedictine vows, especially the vow of stability, make some guarantee of survival extremely important.

[Sister Leticia]

As a matter of interest, are "members" defined as those in vows, or are those in initial formation included in that number? What happens if someone dies or leaves - how long is the community permitted to continue with only two?

I'm aware of two communities which have only two finally professed members. One only ever shows the same two founding members on their website. I think they've had a few postulants, but nobody seems to have stayed for any length of time. The other community started as three, about 10 years ago, but one died a few years ago. They don't have any postulants.

Mary Catherine - is it possible that the threat of closure within 3 years isn't only to do with community numbers, but also with other issues which can impact on their long-term viability (such as a lack of clarity about their purpose, or lack of support from the local bishop)?

[NadaTeTurbe]

From what Mary Catherine has previously said, I think the two members are in initial formation, and don't have professed any kind of final vows. 

[Mary Catherine]

Dears,

In reply to your questions, one of the two sisters is the foundress, and she has gone through 3 years of formation,  ended as a novice with a Benedictine congregation in France.

The other one is a young girl, who just finished her university. Of course she has no experience of formation before. I heard she will have to go formation with another congregation, but it is yet an issue to be decided. 

This congregation was approved by the local bishop 3 years ago, but then the foundress went for formation.

They are now not wearing Benedictine habit nor veil, because they are waiting for a 3rd member and then go stable for a while before they could receive habit from the bishop.

That's the full story. I will post my story with them later in this post.

 

 

 

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

If it isn't an established community then it is a totally different matter and up to the Bishop.

 

[Benedictus]

Seems they are at the stage of being an association of the laity or faithful. They can, as far as I know, stay in this situation for as long as they want to keep going. I mean they can decide their own norms and to live together etc for as long as they like but in terms of process it may stop and start depending on the Bishop. They are under the guidance of their diocese bishop and the local vicar of religious. What happens from here on will vary. I think the process or and canon law is different for communities seeking to form a monastery compared to an institute in the wider sense. They may well be a community using Benedictine spirituality without seeking to found a monastic community, but I've no idea of their intentions.

[Mary Catherine]

23 hours ago, Benedictus said:

Seems they are at the stage of being an association of the laity or faithful. They can, as far as I know, stay in this situation for as long as they want to keep going. I mean they can decide their own norms and to live together etc for as long as they like but in terms of process it may stop and start depending on the Bishop. They are under the guidance of their diocese bishop and the local vicar of religious. What happens from here on will vary. I think the process or and canon law is different for communities seeking to form a monastery compared to an institute in the wider sense. They may well be a community using Benedictine spirituality without seeking to found a monastic community, but I've no idea of their intentions.

This congregation definitely has the intention of attracting vocations and grow into a monastic community, and now they are waiting for the 3rd member to join them.

[Benedictus]

On 26/01/2016, 16:15:59, Mary Catherine said:

This congregation definitely has the intention of attracting vocations and grow into a monastic community, and now they are waiting for the 3rd member to join them.

OK. Prayers it goes well and for your discernment too

[Mary Catherine]

13 hours ago, Benedictus said:

OK. Prayers it goes well and for your discernment too

Thanks so much for your prayer, reverend Benedictus.