Medicare for All

[Nihil Obstat]

17 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Here is another mistake.   Don't get caught up in taking advice from Canadian USA bashers.   

US healthcare is lame because we don't have doctors or medicines or clean hospitals, lol?   Or is it lame because according to WHO, almost 25% of US healthcare workers do nothing but paperwork.  Government programs should fix that. 

Just look at the numbers. Do not get hung up on irrelevant details, like my own country of origin.

[little2add]

On 1/18/2016, 4:22:55, dairygirl4u2c said:

how is it possible to be against this plan?

 

This is Bernie Sanders’s universal healthcare plan for every American

Despite spending twice as much on healthcare than most wealthy countries, Americans have a lower life expectancy than their counterparts in the West. Bernie Sanders is keen to change that.

The US Democratic presidential candidate unveiled his universal healthcare plan a couple of hours before the last Democratic debate last night (Jan. 17). Sanders praised Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act but he noted there are still 29 million Americans without health insurance. He calls for a system “that works not just for millionaires and billionaires, but for all of us.” So what is his alternative?

• Sanders wants to create a federally administered single-payer healthcare program—already used in a number of countries such as Canada—where the government insures everyone for their healthcare needs and pays the bills through taxes. The US already has a single-payer system, called Medicare, which has been in place since 1966 and takes care of Americans over 65.
• Universal healthcare would be funded through taxes—and would no longer be optional. US citizens would pay a 2.2% income-based premium towards their healthcare, while employers would pay an additional 6.2% of what it pays employees towards the plan.
• Further progressive and wealth taxes—such as paying between 37% on income above $250,000 and 52% on income above $10 million, various capital-gains taxes, ended tax exemptions, and inheritance taxes—would fund the scheme, which costs $1.38 trillion per year.
• Last year, the “average working family” paid $4,955 in premiums and $1,318 in deductibles to private health-insurance companies, the Sanders campaign said. Under his plan, a family of four earning $50,000 would pay $466 per year into the single-payer system.
• Sanders claims the plan will result in an overall savings of $6 trillion over the next 10 years, when compared to the current system.

Currently, the US spends about $8,713 per person on healthcare, more than twice the OECD average of $3,453. A number of countries, including Norway, Greece, and Japan, spend less than the US on healthcare but have a life expectancy that is just as long or longer:

Hillary Clinton, who is currently leading the Democratic race nationwide, says the party should focus on improving Obamacare and warned that any plan to move away from the act risks sparking a “contentious debate” within the Democrats. Sanders dismisses this criticism, insisting that his plan will improve the current system and that the government can “finally have the ability to stand up to drug companies and negotiate fair prices for the American people collectively.”

“Universal healthcare is an idea that has been supported in the United States by Democratic presidents going back to Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman,” Sanders wrote. “It is time for our country to join every other major industrialized nation on earth and guarantee healthcare to all citizens as a right, not a privilege.”

It is worth bearing in mind that Obama has, in the past, praised such a plan (paywall) but noted how contentious such a system would be to pass into law.

l

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/wisper3/18t_zps5u9e6zeo.jpg

 

[little2add]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/wisper3/18t_zps5u9e6zeo.jpg 

 

[little2add]

 

[Peace]

On January 26, 2016 at 4:39:01 PM, Anomaly said:

Health Insurance, like all insurance, is people paying for more than they need so others can get what they can't afford.  Having unlimited policies is fundamental idiocy.  

Christians have a moral obligation to give out of their abundance to those who lack. And access to healthcare is a basic right that every person should have, regardless of whether or not he can afford it. It is the same with food, shelter and water. If we have money that we do not need we are obligated to give it to those who do need. Insurance is a way for people who lack means to obtain a basic human need. I would not call that idiocy.

On January 26, 2016 at 4:39:01 PM, Anomaly said:

Burdening the system with regulation and bureaucracy is costly.  Government is not inherently a system that dispenses fairness with dignity and respect. People do have a lot of responsibility for the natural consequences of their actions and inactions.

The free market takes absolutely NO moral considerations into account, while at least the government, while inefficient at times, can be used to further moral principles (such as banning gay marriage or abortion, for example).

Having health care provided by the government has proven to be a more effective means of ensuring that all people get access to basic health care, than by leaving it up to the free market. The only countries that do not have Universal Health Care are the US and many third world countries that have little or no support systems at all. Every major industrial Izard nation has universal health care and a better system than the US. I have lived in a Universal country for 5+ years and would take their system over ours in a second. I don't know anybody who has lived under both systems and prefers the US model (pre or post Obamacare).

IMHO the only reason why it has not caught on in the US is because we have an extremely dog-eat-dog, individualistic culture where people are expected to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps." The concern is whether or not MY health care costs increase. But there is not much concern for people who are unable to afford any type of healthcare at all or who go bankrupt trying to do so.

If we all have to make a sacrifice and pay more so that everyone can get basic coverage, I am fine with that.

[superblue]

On 2/4/2016, 2:54:06, Peace said:

Christians have a moral obligation to give out of their abundance to those who lack. And access to healthcare is a basic right that every person should have, regardless of whether or not he can afford it. It is the same with food, shelter and water. If we have money that we do not need we are obligated to give it to those who do need. Insurance is a way for people who lack means to obtain a basic human need. I would not call that idiocy.

The free market takes absolutely NO moral considerations into account, while at least the government, while inefficient at times, can be used to further moral principles (such as banning gay marriage or abortion, for example).

Having health care provided by the government has proven to be a more effective means of ensuring that all people get access to basic health care, than by leaving it up to the free market. The only countries that do not have Universal Health Care are the US and many third world countries that have little or no support systems at all. Every major industrial Izard nation has universal health care and a better system than the US. I have lived in a Universal country for 5+ years and would take their system over ours in a second. I don't know anybody who has lived under both systems and prefers the US model (pre or post Obamacare).

IMHO the only reason why it has not caught on in the US is because we have an extremely dog-eat-dog, individualistic culture where people are expected to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps." The concern is whether or not MY health care costs increase. But there is not much concern for people who are unable to afford any type of healthcare at all or who go bankrupt trying to do so.

If we all have to make a sacrifice and pay more so that everyone can get basic coverage, I am fine with that.

 your humble opinion is the bs that socialists want everyone to believe.

You can go any time day or night to the ER for anything, and they have to treat you, it's the law. If you can't pay the bill, it goes to collections and or is written off and guess what; tax payers still foot the bill ! What is 100% not true is that any Christian has a moral obligation to do anything, because we have something called free will at least in theory.

Keep confusing things all you want, Americans have the right bear arms, what we do not have the right to, is for our government to GIVE us a gun, there is a right to freedom of the press, there is not the right for the government to force news papers to hire anyone who wants to be a journalist. You have the Right to drive a car, not the right to be given one .   More over if you would personally take another nations system over Americas'  you personally can pack your happy tail up today and go move back to that nation, but you can't force your version of utopia hell upon the rest of us. No one is forcing the numerous socialists who are voting for a socialist system to stay here.

you want to demand Christians and America become more socialist and European, why not demand that the Catholic Church start doing that in Rome, and instead of only having global funding for the extremely poor to start setting up more free hospitals with quality doctors and etc.  It only took the Vatican how long to set up free showers for the poor ? How about instead of shopping for our food and water, we demand that our local dioceses supply us with free food and water ? Why not, or is the Catholic Church only around to " spiritually " support those that are barely getting by, and only physically support the poorest of the poor.?

Utopia doesn't exist, it never will; things won't get better ever; it is what it is, that is life. The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor, people live and people die, crimes get committed on every scale you can't put an end to that either. Stop being a dirty hippie.

      

[Peace]

15 hours ago, superblue said:

 your humble opinion is the bs that socialists want everyone to believe.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/dec/04/timothy-dolan/us-bishops-have-supported-universal-health-care-19/

15 hours ago, superblue said:

You can go any time day or night to the ER for anything, and they have to treat you, it's the law. If you can't pay the bill, it goes to collections and or is written off and guess what; tax payers still foot the bill ! 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/american_journal_of_medicine_09.pdf

15 hours ago, superblue said:

What is 100% not true is that any Christian has a moral obligation to do anything, because we have something called free will at least in theory.

34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

15 hours ago, superblue said:

Keep confusing things all you want, Americans have the right bear arms, what we do not have the right to, is for our government to GIVE us a gun, there is a right to freedom of the press, there is not the right for the government to force news papers to hire anyone who wants to be a journalist. You have the Right to drive a car, not the right to be given one .   More over if you would personally take another nations system over Americas'  you personally can pack your happy tail up today and go move back to that nation, but you can't force your version of utopia hell upon the rest of us. No one is forcing the numerous socialists who are voting for a socialist system to stay here.

You argument in a nutshell seems to be "If you do not like it you can leave." People made the same argument against the civil rights activists when they tried to change the law to eliminage legalized discrimination. And the very attitude does not sound very Catholic. We have an obligation to try to improve the society in which we live.

15 hours ago, superblue said:

you want to demand Christians and America become more socialist and European, why not demand that the Catholic Church start doing that in Rome, and instead of only having global funding for the extremely poor to start setting up more free hospitals with quality doctors and etc.  It only took the Vatican how long to set up free showers for the poor ? How about instead of shopping for our food and water, we demand that our local dioceses supply us with free food and water ? Why not, or is the Catholic Church only around to " spiritually " support those that are barely getting by, and only physically support the poorest of the poor.?

The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the history of the world, the last time I checked. And it is right that those who are most in need should be helped first.

15 hours ago, superblue said:

Utopia doesn't exist, it never will; things won't get better ever; it is what it is, that is life. The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor, people live and people die, crimes get committed on every scale you can't put an end to that either. Stop being a dirty hippie.

But things will get better friend. God has guaranteed that it will.