dairygirl4u2c Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 how is it possible to be against this plan? This is Bernie Sanders’s universal healthcare plan for every American Despite spending twice as much on healthcare than most wealthy countries, Americans have a lower life expectancy than their counterparts in the West. Bernie Sanders is keen to change that. The US Democratic presidential candidate unveiled his universal healthcare plan a couple of hours before the last Democratic debate last night (Jan. 17). Sanders praised Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act but he noted there are still 29 million Americans without health insurance. He calls for a system “that works not just for millionaires and billionaires, but for all of us.” So what is his alternative? Sanders wants to create a federally administered single-payer healthcare program—already used in a number of countries such as Canada—where the government insures everyone for their healthcare needs and pays the bills through taxes. The US already has a single-payer system, called Medicare, which has been in place since 1966 and takes care of Americans over 65. Universal healthcare would be funded through taxes—and would no longer be optional. US citizens would pay a 2.2% income-based premium towards their healthcare, while employers would pay an additional 6.2% of what it pays employees towards the plan. Further progressive and wealth taxes—such as paying between 37% on income above $250,000 and 52% on income above $10 million, various capital-gains taxes, ended tax exemptions, and inheritance taxes—would fund the scheme, which costs $1.38 trillion per year. Last year, the “average working family” paid $4,955 in premiums and $1,318 in deductibles to private health-insurance companies, the Sanders campaign said. Under his plan, a family of four earning $50,000 would pay $466 per year into the single-payer system. Sanders claims the plan will result in an overall savings of $6 trillion over the next 10 years, when compared to the current system. Currently, the US spends about $8,713 per person on healthcare, more than twice the OECD average of $3,453. A number of countries, including Norway, Greece, and Japan, spend less than the US on healthcare but have a life expectancy that is just as long or longer: Hillary Clinton, who is currently leading the Democratic race nationwide, says the party should focus on improving Obamacare and warned that any plan to move away from the act risks sparking a “contentious debate” within the Democrats. Sanders dismisses this criticism, insisting that his plan will improve the current system and that the government can “finally have the ability to stand up to drug companies and negotiate fair prices for the American people collectively.” “Universal healthcare is an idea that has been supported in the United States by Democratic presidents going back to Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman,” Sanders wrote. “It is time for our country to join every other major industrialized nation on earth and guarantee healthcare to all citizens as a right, not a privilege.” It is worth bearing in mind that Obama has, in the past, praised such a plan (paywall) but noted how contentious such a system would be to pass into law. l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 do the math, sweetheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 the math was done, as said above, and we'd save six trillion over ten years. that's actually conservative, we could save up to ten trillion in ten years. cause we spend 17 percent of our GDP on healthcare, and all other developed countires with single payer or some variant of it, pay only ten percent. that equals a trillion dollar difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Obamacare claimed to affordable healthcare too It isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 single payer has plenty of evidences with other countries, obamacare had nothing to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Sanders, has been a champion of nationwide government-provided health insurance for everyone, known as single-payer healthcare. a plan to enact just such a system in Sanders’s home state of Vermont suffered a major setback in December when Gov. Peter Shumlin (D), who had been a champion of the effort, dropped the proposal, concluding it was not financially feasible. (he did the math) Edited January 19, 2016 by little2add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 vermont wasn't doing what it was suppose to to implement single payer, and there was too much political opposition http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711 the image i first posted did the math, and i showed irrefutable evidence by comparing costs v GDP. whereas you've done no math, and haven't even tried to rebut the math i've shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Bernie Sanders stands for many positions which are diametrically opposed to the Church's moral teachings. For that reason I do not think any Catholic should vote for him, no matter the justification. That being said, the American healthcare system is utterly and fundamentally broken. It is not clear that single payer systems are the solution, nor is it clear that any one country's particular version of publicly funded healthcare is quantitatively better than any of several others. But it is clear that the American system is useless. And it bears keeping in mind; the United States spends an enormous amount of public money as a percentage of GDP on health care. So even if your opinion is that a private health system is superior, either ideologically or practically, the United States does not have such a system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 The American system is terrible in many respects, especially in terms of cost, coverage issues, access, corporate interest etc. If you can actually access and pay for care then it's fine, but there's plenty of hurdles and problems before that. It's kind of sad that such a great country has such a messed up system, that has gone on for so long due to a failure to accept that something has been so wrong for far too long. Sadly people have suffered and or died as a result of the system, one way or another. I don't think there's any perfect system but there's plenty of good systems operating around the world that the US could learn from. Lobby groups will fight to discredit anyone who challenges their interests though to keep things the same, or as near as they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 43 minutes ago, Benedictus said: The American system is terrible in many respects, especially in terms of cost, coverage issues, access, corporate interest etc. If you can actually access and pay for care then it's fine, but there's plenty of hurdles and problems before that. It's kind of sad that such a great country has such a messed up system, that has gone on for so long due to a failure to accept that something has been so wrong for far too long. Sadly people have suffered and or died as a result of the system, one way or another. Well, it can be adequate with those who, through whatever means, have the ability to pay. Comparing outcomes though, it's still nothing to brag about for those people. People who are truly wealthy can access superior care, but they could do so in many countries, not just the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, dairygirl4u2c said: vermont wasn't doing what it was suppose to to implement single payer, and there was too much political opposition http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711 the image i first posted did the math, and i showed irrefutable evidence by comparing costs v GDP. whereas you've done no math, and haven't even tried to rebut the math i've shown. it didn't (irrefutable evidence) work. Edited January 20, 2016 by little2add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblue Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I should re open one of my old rant on democrats thread I started a few months back if people are going to pay daisys thread this much attention. everyone here should find a day to take a field trip to catholic answers forum and try debating this topic over there, along with other drama that is constantly going on here, and watch how fast each an everyone of us gets banned. cause it is 1000 times worse there in censorship and blowhardedness and self righteousness and cliques there than here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not A Real Name Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 If other countries spend less on heathcare and the residents of these countries live longer, couldn't this mean they have a different, if not better, food/nutritional/dietary standards than we do in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 40 minutes ago, Not A Real Name said: If other countries spend less on heathcare and the residents of these countries live longer, couldn't this mean they have a different, if not better, food/nutritional/dietary standards than we do in the US? It certainly can mean that, yes. I believe Japan and the Mediterranean tend to be considered the best examples of such countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 20 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said: Bernie Sanders stands for many positions which are diametrically opposed to the Church's moral teachings. For that reason I do not think any Catholic should vote for him, no matter the justification. That being said, the American healthcare system is utterly and fundamentally broken. It is not clear that single payer systems are the solution, nor is it clear that any one country's particular version of publicly funded healthcare is quantitatively better than any of several others. But it is clear that the American system is useless. And it bears keeping in mind; the United States spends an enormous amount of public money as a percentage of GDP on health care. So even if your opinion is that a private health system is superior, either ideologically or practically, the United States does not have such a system. Out of curiosity, can you elaborate on what things he stands for which are diametrically opposed to the Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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