America is a two party system. Voting third party is futile.

[PhuturePriest]

1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I would be incredibly mad if someone threw that much glitter on my suit.

Jesus told him to turn Randall Terry gay, so he sprinkled the glitter on him to magically transform his sexuality. It had to be done.

Unless of course you don't want people to obey direct commands from God.

[Freedom]

As practicing Catholics it is our moral duty to vote.  Not voting is not an option unless you willfully intend to do a transgression against the Church.

https://www.ewtn.com/vote/voting_faq.htm

Our Duty to Vote

With the development of popular government comes the duty of citizens to participate in their own government for the sake of the common good. Not to do so is to abandon the political process to those who do not have the common good in mind. Given the nature of democracies this inevitably leads to unjust laws and an unjust society. These may come about anyway, but they should not come about through the negligence of Christians, who would then share in the guilt.

This duty is chiefly exercised by voting, through which citizens elect their representatives and even determine by referendum the laws which will govern them. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

2239 It is the duty of citizens to contribute along with the civil authorities to the good of society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom. The love and service of one's country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. Submission to legitimate authorities and service of the common good require citizens to fulfill their roles in the life of the political community.

2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one's country [Rom 13:7]:

Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. [Christians] reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners.... They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws.... So noble is the position to which God has assigned them that they are not allowed to desert it. [Ad Diognetum 5: 5, 10]

The Apostle exhorts us to offer prayers and thanksgiving for kings and all who exercise authority, "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way." [1 Tim 2:2]

 

[Credo in Deum]

Duty. Hero's duty.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Credo in Deum

[superblue]

11 hours ago, dUSt said:

It is of my opinion that one should live responsibly in reality. The United States is a two party system. We must choose the best candidate in that system or not vote at all. I choose not to vote at all.

Discuss.

I would like to think that voting no longer matters because of a two party system, but then I ask myself, if that is true, why do candidates spend so much money to win votes ? Why go through the trouble of cheating and having people use the deceased as voters, to bring in illegal immigrants and use them as well for their votes.  Not voting only guarantees that the basic what ever in our nation you want to see, won't happen, or that the politician you hope will win, does not have your vote.  Not voting is probably the worse thing anyone can do and is what causes the nation to suffer more often than not. It does not have to be a two party system, the problem is getting enough people to want to leave the two party system in the wind, not destroying the two party system; they are doing good on their own at proving how worthless they are as respectable leaders. A third party can work, but it will take those forming it , to be able to persevere, have enough funding, and to not expose themselves until they are strong enough to be able to throw the political blows that will come from both the democrats and republicans working together to stop said third party and even infiltrate that party. The tea party, their big mistake was the name, It was meant to be a grass roots org  for demonstrating against corruption in our government, and instead the name killed them and forced them into a corner which they easily lost. I do not think we will ever have a good government in any sense of the word, but we should at the very least have a government that fears the voter. An fears repercussions  from breaking any law. It is a crying shame when anyone of us can get a ticket for going over the speed limit, or running a red light, but a politician who is voted in, blatantly flaunts and abuses laws, and not only does the person not face jail time or fines, but gets re elected ! An education is needed on our constitution and bill of rights, because too often the same leader that breaks these laws and gets re elected, is telling the public that not only are they not breaking any law, but that they are the law and can interpret the law at their discretion to fit their agenda and that we as the voting public must believe them because after all they are the ones who are in power.

 I was thinking about not voting, but really it is my last choice before joining a militia and waiting for things to get to a point of no return.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are on our side, to protect us from things already happening, the problem is we have weak boned leaders from the ground up who refuse to educate themselves on these laws, and use them properly.

 

[Credo in Deum]

Voting no longer matters because of corporations.  The puppet who is going to win this presidential race is the one that works best for the corporate  puppeteers.  

This doesn't mean I won't vote though.  No, I will vote since that is me doing my part. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by Credo in Deum

[Freedom]

More like the Cabals, New World Order, Elites, Illuminati. Whatever you wanna call them.

[superblue]

if some of you here believe that voting is controlled, or that the powerful put into office who they want, then why do you even bother to vote? How do you feel it is " doing your part " when you think that way, because if you are right, if voting is just smoke and mirrors, then there really is no need to vote. An we are left with no other choice but to make a rational , educated, or fact checked list of corporations, and elitists who need to be removed from power, by force, tried and imprisoned.

[dominicansoul]

With the corruption we endure in politics in general, I just vote against the most evil character running.  IN the case of the presidency, I always vote against the pro-death abortion loving Democrat party.  

 

If it is Trump, I'll vote for him.  Besides, he'll provide comedy relief throughout his presidency...

[Credo in Deum]

38 minutes ago, superblue said:

if some of you here believe that voting is controlled, or that the powerful put into office who they want, then why do you even bother to vote? How do you feel it is " doing your part " when you think that way, because if you are right, if voting is just smoke and mirrors, then there really is no need to vote. An we are left with no other choice but to make a rational , educated, or fact checked list of corporations, and elitists who need to be removed from power, by force, tried and imprisoned.

Voting is a good thing.  If I refuse to do what is good, I am no better than the person who corrupts what is good.

[superblue]

Just now, Credo in Deum said:

Voting is a good thing.  If I refuse to do what is good, I am no better than the person who corrupts what is good.

but if you believe it is corrupted, who cares if the intention of voting is good, when the vote does not matter. it just becomes doing something for the sake of doing it because at one point it actually mattered.

[Credo in Deum]

Just now, superblue said:

but if you believe it is corrupted, who cares if the intention of voting is good, when the vote does not matter. it just becomes doing something for the sake of doing it because at one point it actually mattered.

If the intention to vote and the concept of voting are good things,  then there can never be a time when voting does not matter. By voting we are defending the principal of the process. If we abandon our principals then we do more harm than those who corrupt the process, since by abandoning it we remove the process altogher, making it harder and harder for future generations to go back to a voting systme or participate in a voting system. 

[4588686]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2016‎ ‎10‎:‎16‎:‎46‎, dUSt said:

It is of my opinion that one should live responsibly in reality. The United States is a two party system. We must choose the best candidate in that system or not vote at all. I choose not to vote at all.

Discuss.

That doesn't make any sense. What's the difference between voting third party vs not voting at all?

[Ice_nine]

3 hours ago, Credo in Deum said:

If the intention to vote and the concept of voting are good things,  then there can never be a time when voting does not matter. By voting we are defending the principal of the process. If we abandon our principals then we do more harm than those who corrupt the process, since by abandoning it we remove the process altogher, making it harder and harder for future generations to go back to a voting systme or participate in a voting system. 

People talk about how "voting is a duty" without any qualifiers which is stupid. If you don't vote, the pontification goes, then you are morally wrong. How far do we extend that? If you don't vote for your favorite new lay's potato chip flavor, you're going to hell? Obviously I'm being facetious, but what about local elections? Am I bad for not voting for city school board councilman selectman whatever-the-hell you call it? I hardly see Catholics lamenting lack of activity in the local political process (which, ironically, you get more bang for your buck than in a national election), but they nearly kill each other when the presidential election rolls around even though you literally have no power. Seriously, unless you own a multi-million or billion corporation it literally does not matter what you vote for  on a national scale, yet we're quick to insinuate someone is a sinner for not wasting some of their time in a pointless exercise on some fine Tuesday afternoon.

Additionally it tickles me how Catholics, with our strong monarchical tradition, regard voting as some sacred duty and the constitution as something that approximates a sacred, unchangeable document.

A few years back my state had a question concerning assisted suicide on the ballot, and IIRC it was somewhere around like 51% against assisted suicide to 49% (for it). I can see in a case like that where voting is important, but to regard every national election like it's some grave responsibility? It just makes me think you're out of touch with reality and how things actually work.

With that said I vote in some state elections and every national election purely out of a force of habit and mostly so I don't have to hear about how "people died so you could vote!!!!1!" etc.

[Nihil Obstat]

3 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

Additionally it tickles me how Catholics, with our strong monarchical tradition, regard voting as some sacred duty and the constitution as something that approximates a sacred, unchangeable document.

 

Absolutely. Democratic systems are one option among several, and possibly many acceptable sorts of governing authority. The actual use of that authority is far more important than the way in which it is organized.

[Credo in Deum]

@Ice_nine, I participate in both local and national ellections and, yes, I feel it is our duty to our country and our state to do so. More Catholics stress National elections since when they happen, the issues concern all of us in our Nation!  Maybe that is why, ice_nine, there is the appearance that the majority of catholics are only concerned with national elections and not local ellections?!