qfnol31 Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 (edited) 2 more years to go! But an acolyte would still be an "extraordinary" minister, right? What exactly would make their use more proper than not having anyone do it? Edited June 22, 2004 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 (edited) [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 22 2004, 03:00 AM'] 2 more years to go! But an acolyte would still be an "extraordinary" minister, right? What exactly would make their use more proper than not having anyone do it? [/quote] Yes, an acolyte is an "Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion," but unlike the average person, who is only temporarily deputed to perform this function, the acolyte has a [i]stable[/i] ministry. Thus, when sacred ministers are lacking, it is his right and duty to act as an "Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion," while any other member of the lay faithful must recuse himself and defer to the instituted acolyte in performing this function, because this role is a part of the acolytes ministry. Temporary deputation to a liturgical function, does not "properly speaking" make one a minister in the Church, but institution to a ministry on a stable basis, does. Edited June 22, 2004 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 That means that if instituted, they would have precedence over all the laity when EMHCs are needed? I wanna become one just so that our church is a little closer to the norms set by the Holy See. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 22 2004, 03:12 AM'] That means that if instituted, they would have precedence over all the laity when EMHCs are needed? [/quote] Yes. Because an instituted acolyte has a true ministry, and is a minister in the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Go for it! Be a part of the solution! (Hopefully, your bishop will do it.) Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 21 2004, 03:24 PM'] I am thinking of a person who has committed a mortal sin, is genuinly contrite, but can't get to confession before Mass. This person knows that, more than anything else, the Liturgy of the Eucharist is about being united with Christ and the Church. But the person is in a state of Mortal Sin and knows that receiving the Body and Blood would be a mortal sin in and of itself. Is it possible that the participation in the line, and a seeking of blessing, could be an expression of true desire to be reunited with the Church: A symbolic desire of spiritual homecoming. A visual expression, to God and to the congregated assembly, of that same longing and sorrow that consumed the mind of the estranged Prodigal Son? [/quote] I'm thinking that a person who is in mortal sin and approaches an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion to get him to perform a liturgical abuse is probably more likely being used by the devil than by being moved by true contrition. However, it is not the case of mortal sin in the instances I've observed in my parish. It is a hospice worker who walks a retarded adult up the Communion line, receives Holy Communion herself, then holds the retarded person there requesting the Extraordinary Minister impose a blessing. The retarded person is unable to receive Holy Communion, apparently. And the Extraordinary Minister is unable to give a priestly blessing. But he does so anyway.[quote] It was said before in this post that "What is the point of making a Spiritual Communion, if one is going to walk right up to the Sacred Host, but not receive It?" It makes me think of the woman who knew she was not worthy to speak to or touch Christ, but merely wished to be able to touch his robe, or the woman who argued that even the dogs eat the scraps of the master's table. If blessings are the spiritual scraps of the eucharistic feast, who am I to deny them even to the dogs? [/quote] There is just one flaw in that theory: The woman who knew she was not worthy, and the woman who argued that even dogs get scraps from the master's table, both knew enough to go to the Person of [b]Christ[/b] to touch the garment or beg the scraps, [i]not one of his assistants[/i]. If we're in the Communion line looking for a blessing only, then we should only ask someone who is acting [i]in persona Christi[/i] and has the authority to impose a blessing. The Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion is deputed to assist the priest with [i]one[/i] function and [i]one function alone[/i]: distributing Holy Communion. Only the celebrant is acting [i]in persona Christi [/i]~ in the person of Christ. Only the duly ordained may confect the Eucharist, remove the Sacred Vessels from the altar, pour the Precious Blood, Purify the Sacred Vessles, Repose the Blessed Sacrament, and bless the faithful. The Vatican has warned and warned... [i][u]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/u] p.45 “ To be avoided is the danger of obscuring the complementary relationship between the action of clerics and that of laypersons, in such a way that the ministry of laypersons undergoes what might be called a certain ‘clericalization’[/i];” [i][u]Code of Canon Law, Canon 905[/u]: … “lay persons are not permitted… to perform the actions which are proper to the celebrating priest.”[/i] I just don't understand why these abuses continue... Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Go Anna! It is great to see some one else recognize this grave abuse! peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Look, I know you both feel passionately about it, but it is [i]not[/i] our role to decide if it is or if it isn't. I am not saying one way or another, I am simply saying that the Bishops are wiser than we are, and know the intricasies of the issue far better than you or I, and it is their place to make the decision. It is our place to follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 O! woah, hold up, back up. I thought you were sayig it is an abuse to approach the PRIEST for a blessing. THAT would be for the Bishops to decide. If someone is approaching an EMoHC for a [i]blessing[/i] then someone needs to lay the Canon Law-smack down, cuz that IS an abuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 24 2004, 03:43 PM'] O! woah, hold up, back up. I thought you were sayig it is an abuse to approach the PRIEST for a blessing. THAT would be for the Bishops to decide. If someone is approaching an EMoHC for a [i]blessing[/i] then someone needs to lay the Canon Law-smack down, cuz that IS an abuse [/quote] LoL, nice. No one seems to care if you mention it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 lol, That's ok, Jeff! We'll see if anyone listens, qfnol31. I've written my pastor. Pray! Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 OK, I'm still in shock at the number of EMs you all seem to have! It's difficult to understand why people make the argument that time is an issue and therefore more EMs are needed to 'speed the process up'....it's a wonderful privilege to be in the Presence of God when celebrating the Mass - personally I never want to leave! There is a lady at my parish who is in her 90s. She attends Mass every morning, and also prays the rosary in church everyday before the Mass. She kneels for the whole of the rosary and also for the whole time after she has received the Blessed Sacrament, while others receive, until the final blessing when the Mass is ended. She puts me to shame. The argument about time cuts no ice when you see true devotion to Our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 How much time are we willing to stand and wait in line at the movie theater, or at an amusement park? Even once we've reached the end of the line, we have to fork over money for a fleeting period of entertainment. Shouldn't we be at least that willing and eager to wait for Jesus Christ, Who freely gives Himself to us and gives grace to our eternal souls by receiving Him? Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 (edited) The arguments against the implementation (or "excessive", as if one is not too much, implementation) of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are interesting to say the least, but, as far as I have read, no one has yet mentioned the fact that these people's hands (as well as all those who receive in the hand) are not consecrated and are unworthy to handle the Blessed Sacrament. This (along with the immense sacrileges which occur because of fallen Particles) should be the two major concerns and reasons to shun the concept of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. It would not matter if it took an hour to distribute Communion by the number of Priests that are present at the church. There are enough Priests at each Parish to distribute Communion if they were not so lazy as to skip Masses in order to allow even women to distribute Communion in their place. In any event, half of them could be done away with immediately by not distributing the Precious Blood to the people in cases in which there are not enough clergy. The Church has already said that the Precious Blood may only be distributed in cases in which there are few people (I will be glad to get the document and exact wording if anyone is interested), but the Church has also said that Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion may only be used in cases of grave necessity in which there are so many faithful that it would be an extreme inconvience (I believe this is the exact wording) to not have them. With this being said, it is impossible to ever abide by the Church's laws concerning this practice if an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion is distributing the Precious Blood. Further, if there are 1400 people at a Parish, there are surely a great number of Priests. I have just returned today from Chicago where I attended Mass at Saint John Canisius Church (they have Traditional Latin Mass and Novus Ordo). This Parish had 5 permanent Priests. They do not use Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (to my knowledge at least, I did not attend any of their Novus Ordo Masses, but they do have Latin Novus Ordo and as far as I can tell, every Mass is done ad orientem because they have not put a table in front of the high altar; by the way, I highly recommend this Parish to anyone in the area; the Church is beautiful, and they have Traditional Mass). In any event, at all of the Masses I attended in which there were a large number of faithful, there were only two Priests needed to distribute Communion in a timely fashion (this is also the maximum number that could be used generally speaking when there is an altar rail in the church), but if there is a Mass which actually has 1400 people attending, there must certainly be many Priests who are stationed at such a Parish and if they would all distribute Communion (and if both species were not distributed to the people) it would still be feasible to eliminate the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion in general. Further, the worst thing that can happen by disallowing them is to give more time to pray during Communion! God bless. Edited June 27, 2004 by amarkich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I love the Church and Order of St. John Cantius. I think what they are doing in Chicago is so wonderful. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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