voiciblanche Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I had been talking about this to Zach (qfnol31) another time and we'd been talking about how we have so many at our parish (we're at the same one.) I said that I thought we had more than we needed, but that perhaps they were necessary with so many people at Mass. He said he'd done the math and that, with only the priest and deacon and no EMs, it would take only about five mintues more than it does now. When only five mintues are saved, what is the purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 [quote name='voiciblanche' date='Jun 18 2004, 05:15 PM'] He said he'd done the math and that, with only the priest and deacon and no EMs, it would take only about five mintues more than it does now. When only five mintues are saved, what is the purpose? [/quote] Hey, this was the argument )doing the math for time) I used on a long ago thread that defended the use of EEM's. An extra 5 minutes shouldn't be a hardship. In Tampa, people can go to mass during the week at Sacred Heart in downtown. Only about 50 people go to mass but they have an EEM and a priest. I see no reason for this. But consider 500 people going to one priest to recieve under both species. At 2 seconds each, 1.000 seconds is 16.6 minutes. My parish church seats well over 1.000 people, and there is always people standing. But EEMs should have proper deportment, reverence, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 We have 2 if the Deacon is there and 3 if not. Father always does one of the Hosts and some one (if the Deacon is there) does the other one. And than two people do the Blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 maybe i'm crazy, but what's wrong with waiting 20 minutes? how is that suuuuch a hardship? the problem is the majority of Catholics would rather have a practical Mass than a reverent Mass, rather get out of there faster than wait. Perhaps they could use this time to examine their conscience and prepare to meet their maker (literally but not like dying)??? Perhaps they could use this time to be sure they are not guilty of mortal sin? oh wait, nowadays mortal sin doesn't exist to the average Joe Catholic pAx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daugher-of-Mary Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 [quote]maybe i'm crazy, but what's wrong with waiting 20 minutes? how is that suuuuch a hardship? the problem is the majority of Catholics would rather have a practical Mass than a reverent Mass, rather get out of there faster than wait. Perhaps they could use this time to examine their conscience and prepare to meet their maker (literally but not like dying)???Perhaps they could use this time to be sure they are not guilty of mortal sin? oh wait, nowadays mortal sin doesn't exist to the average Joe Catholic [/quote] Agreed! I'm always surprised out how quickly people run out of church. There is only a few minutes between reception of the Eucharist and the end of Mass at most parishes, so Jesus is still physically present with us at the end of Mass (the ole Baltimore Catechism says for 15 mins after receiving). The least we can do is spend some time with our Creator who humbles Himself enough to take the form of bread in order to be united with us! [quote]Perhaps they could use this time to examine their conscience and prepare to meet their maker (literally but not like dying)???[/quote] Papa John Paul called the Eucharist our daily "viaticum" in one of his encyclicals. Literally, Christ's Presence gives us the strength to take up the cross and die for Him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 (edited) If there is truly a pressing need for additional ministers of Holy Communion every Sunday at Mass, rather than abuse the permission allowing the use of "Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion," which by the very title applied to that function indicates that it is to be used only [i][b]extraordinarily[/b][/i]; the bishop of the diocese should instead institute lay men to the permanent office of the Acolytate, in accord with canon 230 § 1 of the Latin [u]Code of Canon Law[/u]. Sadly, the reason this has not been done is that only men can be instituted to the ministry of the Acolytate, and this would mean that women could not be used to distribute Holy Communion during Mass; and that of course, would be politically incorrect in our modern egalitarian society, which rightly holds that men and women are equal, but which in addition mistakenly promotes the idea that they are identical, and even interchangeable. In conclusion it should be noted that the habitual and abusive use of "Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion" has been condemned repeatedly by the Holy See, but to no avail. The true answer to the shortage of ministers in the Church is not to be found in clericalizing the laity, quite the opposite, doing that will only help to suppress vocations to the priesthood. The instituted ministry of the Acolytate bestowed permanently upon men of good character, who have been properly trained, and who have a solid grasp of the Church's theological tradition, is an acceptable solution to the present problem, and it has the added bonus of being completely in line with the canonical norms of the Latin Rite. Edited June 19, 2004 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 I want to become an acolyte. I think it would be awesome! Over at school I often tell them that I can't serve as an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion because they ask me almost every day. I've decided that if I'm ordinarily doing it, then I'm not an extraordinary minister... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Sadly, the majority of American bishops will not institute men to the stable ministry of the Acolytate; even though, as I indicated before, the [u]Code of Canon Law[/u] permits the practice in canon 230 § 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 What exactly is their role, and what would the normal qualifications be (in another conference)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 18 2004, 11:32 PM'] What exactly is their role, and what would the normal qualifications be (in another conference)? [/quote] The functions of an instituted acolyte can be found in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) and in the [u]Code of Canon Law[/u], and other enactments of both universal and particular law. This ministry, along with the Lectorate, was created by Pope Paul VI in his Motu Proprio [u]Ministeria Quaedam[/u]. In that same letter he suppressed the lower orders and briefly explained the roles and functions of the Acolytate and the Lectorate, while also opening these two ministries to all lay men, and not simply to those men entering seminary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 In our parish, we have male and female altar servers. At almost every mass, one altar server (male) is designated as MC (Master of Ceremony). He is usually older and wears a black cassock and surplice while the altar servers just wear a white robe. If we have and acolyte or a seminarian (we often do), they will take over that role. Their duties are different like holding the prayer book for the priest, setting stuff on the altar, etc. They also direct the altar servers. I really like it. Now if we can just deal more seriously with the EEM's.... Part of the problem is the size of the parish. It's very big, and we do need EEM's. Unfortunately, the volunteers or staff that supervise them, have little time for training etc. I think the root system is lack of proper involvement by the laity. Too much administrative duties adn responsibilities are burdened on the priests and religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I have only seen one or two examples of legitimate use of EEMs. I say abolish the posisiton altogether and allow for very exceptional cases. People are far too concerned with getting out of Church a few minutes earlier. If we really want want to be efficient we would restore the use of the Communion Rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 (edited) Although I am no longer a Latin Rite Catholic, I am still disturbed by the habitual abuse of the permission for this [i]extraordinary[/i] role at Mass, especially when canon law itself permits the institution of men to the stable ministry of the Acolytate. The continued overuse of "Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion" is disturbing to me, because it reveals a real lack of understanding on the part of the Christian faithful, and even of some members of the hierarchy, about the essential difference between the Ministerial Priesthood of the ordained priest and the Baptismal Priesthood of the laity. Contrary to the norms of universal law which speaks of the temporary deputation of members of the laity as "Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion," it is clear that in many cases the deputation given has become a permanent deputation. Edited June 19, 2004 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 18 2004, 03:46 PM'] I go to a rather small Ruthenian Catholic parish, and we have at most about 200 communicants each Sunday. The priest alone distributes communion under both kinds on a golden spoon by intinction and it takes about 5 minutes for him to do this. [/quote] I am so jelous.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Jun 18 2004, 05:58 PM'] We have 2 if the Deacon is there and 3 if not. Father always does one of the Hosts and some one (if the Deacon is there) does the other one. And than two people do the Blood. [/quote] IIRC, Deacons are supposed to be ministers of the Precious Blood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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