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Patrick Madrid Vs. James White


St. Catherine

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St. Catherine

This is a interview with Patrick Madrid from the National Catholic Register.

[color=blue]Didn’t you recently debate prominent Protestant apologist James White? How did that go?

On July 11 we had a four-hour public debate on the communion of saints at a convention center on Long Island. Nearly 1,000 people attended, about evenly divided between Catholics and Protestants. I defended the thesis that prayer to and veneration of the saints, aw well as veneration of images that represent them. Is consistent with Scripture and Christian tradition.

Jim concentrated on what amounted to a single argument-that veneration of the saits and asking their intercession, as well as veneration of icons and images such as a crucifix, constitutes idolatry. I was explaining from Scripture the proper use of sacred images I raised up a large crucifix, holding it before the audience. “Since we are talking about icons, I thought it would be beneficial to actually show you one,” I said. The Catholics in the audience were smiling and seemed happy to see the crucifix raised high. Many Protestants, however, had a look of consternation on their faces. The room became hushed.

I told them that, if they believed what my opponent was telling them, that icons are really idols that cannot be shown honor, then similarly, it wouldn’t matter if an icon were shown dishonor. Therefore, I explained, the Protestants in the audience should have no problem coming forward to stomp on or spit upon the crucifix I was holding. I asked rhetorically how many would be willing to do this? I then added that none would be willing to show disrespect to that icon of Christ because, even though the wood itself was meaningless, they knew in their hearts that to show disrespect to the icon would be to show disrespect for Christ himself.

How much more so, I added, would the veneration of the icon show respect for Christ. It was an electric moment for the audience, and my opponent was not able to offer a coherent response to that point.[/color]

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phatcatholic

does anyone have links to any of patrick madrid's debates? i would love to add them to the reference section

oh, and the links can be to transcriptions of the debate, or to real audio/mp3 versions so that we an hear them for ourselves.........thanks ;)

Edited by phatcatholic
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ilovechrist

ya PC i'll look, my mom had some stuff that was im mp3 of his stuff... i dunno if it was this specific debate though.

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I am going to be ignorant who is PAtrick MAdrid obvisouly an apologist i have never heard of him before though? Can someone give me a bit on his background?

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littleflower+JMJ

yes his an apologist, author, father of eleven and is has a catholic magazine called ENVOY and for his series of books called "Surprised by Truth" which are conversion stories from many who have been converted or reverted.

his very cool. been to one of his seminars and his awesome, not to mention has a great sense of humor.

[url="http://www.surprisedbytruth.com/"]Surprised by Truth[/url]

[url="http://www.envoymagazine.com"]http://www.envoymagazine.com[/url]

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[quote name='St. Catherine' date='Jun 17 2004, 11:58 PM'] This is a interview with Patrick Madrid from the National Catholic Register.

[color=blue]Didn’t you recently debate prominent Protestant apologist James White? How did that go?

On July 11 we had a four-hour public debate on the communion of saints at a convention center on Long Island. Nearly 1,000 people attended, about evenly divided between Catholics and Protestants. I defended the thesis that prayer to and veneration of the saints, aw well as veneration of images that represent them. Is consistent with Scripture and Christian tradition.

Jim concentrated on what amounted to a single argument-that veneration of the saits and asking their intercession, as well as veneration of icons and images such as a crucifix, constitutes idolatry. I was explaining from Scripture the proper use of sacred images I raised up a large crucifix, holding it before the audience. “Since we are talking about icons, I thought it would be beneficial to actually show you one,” I said. The Catholics in the audience were smiling and seemed happy to see the crucifix raised high. Many Protestants, however, had a look of consternation on their faces. The room became hushed.

I told them that, if they believed what my opponent was telling them, that icons are really idols that cannot be shown honor, then similarly, it wouldn’t matter if an icon were shown dishonor. Therefore, I explained, the Protestants in the audience should have no problem coming forward to stomp on or spit upon the crucifix I was holding. I asked rhetorically how many would be willing to do this? I then added that none would be willing to show disrespect to that icon of Christ because, even though the wood itself was meaningless, they knew in their hearts that to show disrespect to the icon would be to show disrespect for Christ himself.

How much more so, I added, would the veneration of the icon show respect for Christ. It was an electric moment for the audience, and my opponent was not able to offer a coherent response to that point.[/color] [/quote]
wow, that's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool: :cool:

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