Is Satan In The Catholic Church?

[beatitude]

Josh, I think you take stuff you read on the Internet far too seriously. It seems as though every couple of weeks you're anxious over a new meme or some post you read on a forum somewhere, and you want people here to reassure you it isn't true.

Anybody can plunk down in front of his computer to share opinions with the world. It doesn't make those opinions right. If you want to learn your faith in more detail, why not look for a good adult catechesis program at a local church, or even just a priest, religious sister, or other theologically educated person who can have a few chats with you? That is a better way than going from website to website and getting agitated about the views shared by a bunch of anonymous people who may or may not know what they're talking about.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, beatitude said:

Josh, I think you take stuff you read on the Internet far too seriously. It seems as though every couple of weeks you're anxious over a new meme or some post you read on a forum somewhere, and you want people here to reassure you it isn't true.

Anybody can plunk down in front of his computer to share opinions with the world. It doesn't make those opinions right. If you want to learn your faith in more detail, why not look for a good adult catechesis program at a local church, or even just a priest, religious sister, or other theologically educated person who can have a few chats with you? That is a better way than going from website to website and getting agitated about the views shared by a bunch of anonymous people who may or may not know what they're talking about.

I'm not anxious. It says at the top of open mic not to be afraid and to talk about whatever you want. FYI my post may be trolling to some extent. I've been hearing the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon and to come out of her for a long time now. I used to only hear it from Protestants. Now I hear it from Catholics as well. I think it's important to talk about. I'm on my way to Confession now but I'm not above becoming Protestant. I don't think I ever will but I'm not 100 percent sure. 

And I don't need you to reassure me about anything. Thanks anyways.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Guest

[Gladius]

24 minutes ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

I go to an FSSP parish. I wanted the traditional Mass yet in good standing with the Church. That makes the most sense to me.

 

There's nothing wrong with an FSSP parish.  I go target shooting with an FSSP priest.  You will never find a more down to earth guy and one more interested in the spiritual welfare of others.

[MarysLittleFlower]

20 minutes ago, Gladius said:

There's nothing wrong with an FSSP parish.  I go target shooting with an FSSP priest.  You will never find a more down to earth guy and one more interested in the spiritual welfare of others.

I like our priests a lot at our parish, they are very prayerful and genuinely caring for the souls entrusted to them

[Gladius]

12 minutes ago, Josh said:

I've been hearing the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon and to come out of her for a long time now. I used to only hear it from Protestants. Now I hear it from Catholics as well. I think it's important to talk about. I'm on my way to Confession now but I'm not above becoming Protestant. I don't think I ever will but I'm not 100 percent sure. 

And I don't need you to reassure me about anything. Thanks anyways.

It's easy to speculate about the Book of Revelation.  Are the Prots really that far off?  This is only speculation, but the whore could be a false church masquerading as the real Church.  It could never mean the real Church that Christ founded.  We have the promise of Jesus that His Church would persevere to the end. 

A world wide false church, with all of the trappings of the real Church, would seduce millions into false doctrines.  If an event like a Church Council were to split the real Church into two camps, that would be catastrophic for mankind.  Revelation talks about the whore wearing red and scarlet (bishops and cardinals?).  The "wine" of her whoredom, could refer to a protestantised, new mass.

At Fatima, the Blessed Virgin instructed Lucia to reveal the Secret by 1960, because by then, "it would be more clear".  In 1960, the only thing of any consequence happening in the Church, was the preparatory planning for Vatican II.  Seven Popes have failed to carry out Our Lady's request at Fatima, in the specific way she requested it.  

[MarysLittleFlower]

35 minutes ago, Josh said:

I'm not anxious. It says at the top of open mic not to be afraid and to talk about whatever you want. FYI my post may be trolling to some extent. I've been hearing the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon and to come out of her for a long time now. I used to only hear it from Protestants. Now I hear it from Catholics as well. I think it's important to talk about. I'm on my way to Confession now but I'm not above becoming Protestant. I don't think I ever will but I'm not 100 percent sure. 

And I don't need you to reassure me about anything. Thanks anyways.

I used to be Protestant and I notice a huge change in my relationship with God with the Sacraments. In Protestantism there are no Sacraments, they all interpret Scripture how they want .. Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich had a vision of what Christ experienced in the Garden of Gethsemane. One of the things He saw were all the "reformers" and the effects of them. After reading that I understood more about the Church. The Church is Christ mystically present on earth. It is not an institution. It is definitely not the whore of Babylon. Even if there are problems within the Church it's still not that, it's the Church Militant being attacked. It doesn't change Our Lord's words to St Peter. 

35 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

 

Our Lady of Fatima said in the end her Immaculate Heart will triumph. Maybe the Church is attacked but its still the Church. Have you ever read of the dream of St John Bosco? He had prophetic dreams from God. 

Try to picture yourselves with me on the seashore, or, better still, on an outlying cliff with no other land in sight. The vast expanse of water is covered with a formidable array of ships in battle formation, prows fitted with sharp spear-like beaks capable of breaking through any defense. All are heavily armed with cannons, incendiary bombs, and firearms of all sorts – even books – and are heading toward one stately ship, mightier than them all. As they try to close in, they try to ram it, set it afire, and cripple it as much as possible.

“This stately vessel is shielded by a flotilla escort. Winds and waves are with the enemy. In this midst of this endless sea, two solid columns, a short distance apart, soar high into the sky: one is surmounted by a statue of the Immaculate Virgin at whose feet a large inscription reads: Help of Christians; the other, far loftier and sturdier, supports a [Communion] Host of proportionate size and bears beneath it the inscription Salvation of believers.

“The flagship commander – the Roman Pontiff [the Pope]- seeing the enemy’s fury and his auxiliary ships very grave predicament, summons his captains to a conference. However, as they discuss their strategy, a furious storm breaks out and they must return to their ships. When the storm abates, the Pope again summons his captains as the flagship keeps on its course. But the storm rages again. Standing at the helm, the Pope strains every muscle to steer his ship between the two columns from whose summits hang many anchors and strong hooks linked to chains.

 

The entire enemy fleet closes in to intercept and sink the flagship at all costs. They bombard it with everything they have: books and pamphlets, incendiary bombs, firearms, cannons. The battle rages ever more furious. Beaked prows ram the flagship again and again, but to no avail, as, unscathed and undaunted, it keeps on its course. At times a formidable ram splinters a gaping hole into its hull, but, immediately, a breeze from the two columns instantly seals the gash.

“Meanwhile, enemy cannons blow up, firearms and beaks fall to pieces, ships crack up and sink to the bottom. In blind fury the enemy takes to hand-to-hand combat, cursing and blaspheming. Suddenly the Pope falls, seriously wounded. He is instantly helped up but, struck down a second time, dies. A shout of victory rises from the enemy and wild rejoicing sweeps their ships. But no sooner is the Pope dead than another takes his place. The captains of the auxiliary ships elected him so quickly that the news of the Pope’s death coincides with that of his successor’s election. The enemy’s self-assurance wanes.

“Breaking through all resistance, the new Pope steers his ship safely between the two columns and moors it to the two columns; first to the one surmounted by the Host, and then to the other, topped by the statue of the Virgin. At this point something unexpected happens. The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other. Some auxiliary ships which had gallantly fought alongside their flagship are the first to tie up at the two columns.

“Many others, which had fearfully kept far away from the fight, stand still, cautiously waiting until the wrecked enemy ships vanish under the waves. Then, they too head for the two columns, tie up at the swinging hooks, and ride safe and tranquil beside their flagship. A great calm now covers the sea.”

And in conclusion to this dream:

“Very grave trials await the Church. What we have suffered so far is almost nothing compared to what is going to happen. The enemies of the Church are symbolized by the ships which strive their utmost to sink the flagship. Only two things can save us in such a grave hour: devotion to Mary and frequent Communion. Let us do our very best to use these two means and have others use them everywhere

https://www.catholiccompany.com/getfed/vision-john-don-bosco-two-columns-mary-eucharist/

Edited December 24, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Guest]

 

11 minutes ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

The Church is Christ mystically present on earth. It is not an institution. It is definitely not the whore of Babylon. 

Each individual believer who has faith in Christ makes up the Church. The Bible says we are Priest. And as far as the Catholic Church not being the whore of Babylon tons of people disagree with you. @Gladius is right in this thread telling me I have "quite the dilemma" I personally don't think this is the case or I wouldn't remain Catholic. At the same time I'm not 100 percent sure. Revelations warns us about this. I'm a little confused with the Catholic Churches teaching on Islam. There's Catholics with active ministries saying similar things negative about the current Church or "Francis Church". 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Guest

[MarysLittleFlower]

As for Protestantism yes there are Protestants who love Jesus but this grace they have through the Church. If they knowingly reject the Church that is heresy. None of us here are invincibly ignorant. Take a look at what Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich saw about Protestantism as a movement. I think the text is in public domain so I'll just post it. 

"The scandals of all ages, down to the present day and even to the end of the world—every species of error, deception, mad fanaticism, obstinacy, and malice—were displayed before his eyes, and he beheld, as it were floating before him, all the apostates, heresiarchs, and pretended reformers, who deceive men by an appearance of sanctity. The corrupters and the corrupted of all ages outraged and tormented him for not having been crucified after their fashion, or for not having suffered precisely as they settled or imagined he should have done. They vied with each other in tearing the seamless robe of his Church; many ill-treated, insulted, and denied him, and many turned contemptuously away, shaking their heads at him, avoiding his compassionate embrace, and hurrying on to the abyss where they were finally swallowed up.

He saw countless numbers of other men who did not dare openly to deny him, but who passed on in disgust at the sight of the wounds of his Church, as the Levite. passed by the poor man who had fallen among robbers. Like unto cowardly and faithless children, who desert their mother in the middle of the night, at the sight of the thieves and robbers to whom their negligence or their malice has opened the door, they fled from his wounded Spouse.

He beheld all these men, sometimes separated from the True Vine, and taking their rest amid the wild fruit trees, sometimes like lost sheep, left to the mercy of the wolves, led by base hirelings into bad pasturages, and refusing to enter the fold of the Good Shepherd who gave his life for his sheep. They were wandering homeless in the desert in the midst of the sand blown about by the wind, and were obstinately determined not to see his City placed upon a hill, which could not be hidden, the House of his Spouse, his Church built upon a rock, and with which he had promised to remain to the end of ages.

They built upon the sand wretched tenements, which they were continually pulling down and rebuilding, but in which there was neither altar nor sacrifice; they had weathercocks on their roofs, and their doctrines changed with the wind, consequently they were for ever in opposition one with the other. They never could come to a mutual understanding, and were for ever unsettled, often destroying their own dwellings and hurling the fragments against the Corncr Stone of the Church, which always remained unshaken.

 As there was nothing but darkness in the dwellings of these men, many among them, instead of directing their steps towards the Candle placed on the Candlestick in the House of the Spouse of Christ, wandered with closed eyes around the gardens of the Church, sustaining life only by inhaling the sweet odours which were diffused from them far and near, stretching forth their hands towards shadowy idols, and following wandering stars which led them to wells where there was no water. Even when on the very brink of the precipice, they refused to listen to the voice of the Spouse calling them, and, though dying with hunger, derided, insulted, and mocked at those servants and messengers who were sent to invite them to the Nuptial Feast.

They obstinately refused to enter the garden, because they feared the thorns of the hedge, although they had neither wheat with which to satisfy their hunger nor wine to quench their thirst, but were simply intoxicated with pride and self-esteem, and being blinded by their own false lights, persisted in asserting that the Church of the Word made flesh was invisible. Jesus beheld them all, he wept over them, and was pleased to suffer for all those who do not see him and who will not carry their crosses after him in his City built upon a hill—his Church founded upon a rock, to which he has given himself in the Holy Eucharist, and against which the gates of Hell will never prevail.

Bearing a prominent place in these mournful visions which were beheld by the soul of Jesus, I saw Satan, who dragged away and strangled a multitude of men redeemed by the blood of Christ and sanctified by the unction of his Sacrament. Our Divine Saviour beheld with bitterest anguish the ingratitude and corruption of the Christians of the first and of all succeeding ages, even to the end of the world, and during the whole of this time the voice of the tempter was incessantly repeating: ‘Canst thou resolve to suffer for such ungrateful reprobates?’ while the various apparitions succeeded each other with intense rapidity, and so violently weighed down and crushed the soul of Jesus, that his sacred humanity was overwhelmed with unspeakable anguish. Jesus—the Anointed of the Lord—the Son of Man—struggled and writhed as he fell on his knees, with clasped hands, as it were annihilated beneath the weight of his suffering. So violent was the struggle which then took place between his human will and his repugnance to suffer so much for such an ungrateful race, that from every pore of his sacred body there burst forth large drops of blood, which fell trickling on to the ground. In his bitter agony, he looked around, as though seeking help, and appeared to take Heaven, earth, and the stars of the firmament to witness of his sufferings

http://www.jesus-passion.com/THE_PASSION.htm#CHAPTER

[Gladius]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

16 minutes ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

The Church is Christ mystically present on earth. It is not an institution.

 

 

That is a Protestant view of the Church.

[Guest]

Tldr Believers in Christ make up the Church on Earth. Further the Bible tells us we're Priest and Saints through our faith in Christ. There's a lot of things I don't like about Protestantism but there's tons and tons and tons and tons of Christians who love Jesus who don't identify as Catholic. They're saved by grace through their faith in Christ not by any works less they be tempted to boast. I'm not here to discuss Protestants. What I'm here discuss is all these Catholics now a days echoing the same things Protestants have been saying about the Catholic Church being the whore of Babylon. I don't think that's the case but obviously @Gladius does. He's telling me to come out of her.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Guest

[MarysLittleFlower]

14 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

Each individual believer who has faith in Christ makes up the Church. The Bible says we are Priest. And as far as the Catholic Church not being the whore of Babylon tons of people disagree with you. @Gladius is right in this thread telling me I have "quite the dilemma" I personally don't think this is the case or I wouldn't remain Catholic. At the same time I'm not 100 percent sure. Revelations warns us about this. I'm a little confused with the Catholic Churches teaching on Islam. There's Catholics with active ministries saying similar things negative about the current Church or "Francis Church". 

I recommend you study catechesis more. I take a weekly catechism at my parish with very knowledgeable orthodox priests. Here's what I was taught there - we enter the Church at Baptism however once we grow up if we reject the Church culpably, we are in heresy. And those little children and others who are invincibly ignorant who are baptised yet not Catholic, their link to the Church is sort of hidden, and there's danger of them rejecting the truth when they are older. It does matter being Catholic. There's only one Church and its visible. Its not an invisible organisation. Its visible and those who were baptised reject the truth and become heretics when they culpably reject the Church. We just can't judge how culpable someone is. So if I understood correctly that's sort of how it is... But even though baptism is the way to enter the Church, it doesn't mean its some unstructured invisible organisation. Its structured and visible and its the Catholic Church... We just don't call people heretics if they never chose it and are infants baptized somewhere else, since valid baptism makes someone in the Church. But if they later believe heresies... Regarding being priests. This is how it was explained to me... The body expresses the soul. So the Body of Christ - the Church - expresses Him. He acts through it. The ministerial priesthood does this and we need it to be visible just as the Body is visible. We don't all have ministerial priesthood, only ordained priests. Protestants make everything invisible and that's not how the Body of Christ works. As for the whore of Babylon stuff... The Pope and the Church would never turn into that. Even if theres an infiltration there would still be the truth in the actual Church.  

20 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

 

[Gladius]

21 minutes ago, Josh said:

4 minutes ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

I recommend you study catechesis more.

 

Thank you.  Good advice.  I am deficient in more ways than I care to think about.  But, anyone can look at the Catholic Church and see that it was "instituted" by Christ.  I'm pretty sure that makes the Church an institution.

[MarysLittleFlower]

14 minutes ago, Gladius said:

That is a Protestant view of the Church.

What do you mean? You quoted me, but what I said is not the Protestant view. I'm saying that the Church is Catholic, visible, and not an institution.

[Gladius]

26 minutes ago, Josh said:

Just now, MarysLittleFlower said:

What do you mean? You quoted me, but what I said is not the Protestant view. I'm saying that the Church is Catholic, visible, and not an institution.

Each individual believer who has faith in Christ makes up the Church. The Bible says we are Priest. And as far as the Catholic Church not being the whore of Babylon tons of people disagree with you. @Gladius is right in this thread telling me I have "quite the dilemma" I personally don't think this is the case or I wouldn't remain Catholic. At the same time I'm not 100 percent sure. Revelations warns us about this. I'm a little confused with the Catholic Churches teaching on Islam. There's Catholics with active ministries saying similar things negative about the current Church or "Francis Church". 

What you say may be true, but the Church is an institution as well.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Gladius said:

Thank you.  Good advice.  I am deficient in more ways than I care to think about.  But, anyone can look at the Catholic Church and see that it was "instituted" by Christ.  I'm pretty sure that makes the Church an institution.

Why are you telling to me to come out of her then?