Supporting a Carmelite's vocation (GoFundMe)

[vee]

I, too, have red flags that pop up in my mind when someone shows up simply to ask for money right off the bat.  At the same time my hunch is that a lot of posters on here cant afford to donate much anyway and the majority of fund raising attempts would likely raise very little.  For one my guess is taht a lot of posters are students of some sort and we all know how much money students have!  Other members may have graduated and are working but have their own debts to pay off not to mention the costs of life itself plus their own vocation costs. There may be  a handful of posters who have some extra money  but to donate to someone they dont even know is quite the gamble.

Also, I dont know about anyone else, but Im getting donation request overload!  At this time of year in particular everyone it seems wants a donation! 

[Nunsuch]

All of the red flags here really concern me, as well. The candidate is 55 years old and owes $28,000 in student loans at this age. As far as I can tell from the "gofundme" page, she has already pursued several careers--nurse, social worker, bookstore manager, not to mention wife and mother. She says she has a vocation, but it seemed very unspecific, as she pursued "calls" to a variety of orders, from Benedictines and Franciscans to Passionists to Visitandines, to (now) the Carmelites. There is really not a lot of information about spiritual direction.... 

We all know people who we might feel more confident about supporting should we feel called to do so. This person isn't even asking for herself--instead, we have a non-Catholic friend (who may of course be very sincere and honorable) coming on the Phorum solely and specifically to ask for money. 

None of this strikes me as very promising....

[By His Grace Alone]

2 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

All of the red flags here really concern me, as well. The candidate is 55 years old and owes $28,000 in student loans at this age. As far as I can tell from the "gofundme" page, she has already pursued several careers--nurse, social worker, bookstore manager, not to mention wife and mother. She says she has a vocation, but it seemed very unspecific, as she pursued "calls" to a variety of orders, from Benedictines and Franciscans to Passionists to Visitandines, to (now) the Carmelites. There is really not a lot of information about spiritual direction.... 

We all know people who we might feel more confident about supporting should we feel called to do so. This person isn't even asking for herself--instead, we have a non-Catholic friend (who may of course be very sincere and honorable) coming on the Phorum solely and specifically to ask for money. 

None of this strikes me as very promising....

Exactly my point.  If PG thinks I am being smug, I really don't care.  I am being honest and if he feels the need to atttack that, so be it.  I stand by what I have said.  I have supported more than one vocation, but I knew the person and wanted to give them a chance.  This strikes me as a money grab regardless of who set the page up and I am also fed up with the constant never ending requests for money. If you are pursuing a religious vocation you don't rack up even more education debt.  One would think you would be more financially careful and aware. If PG feels the need to continue being rude, go ahead.  That seems to be the pattern here when, heaven forbid, you don't absolutely agree.  

[be_thou_my_vision]

Thank you, Patrick, for alerting us to your friend's fundraising page. I sincerely hope she is able to pay off the debt quickly and pursue entering Carmel. Many prayers for her and for you! God Bless!

[orapronobis]

I'm getting the feeling that it may be time to close replies on this thread- it's a slippery slope to full-blown keyboard warriordom my friends... 

 

Good look to your friend though PG, I've used crowdfunding websites before when I've been on volunteer trips but couldn't pay the entire amount due to being in full time education.  I'll pray for her. 

[Feankie]

If I had the power to close the thread, I would.  Again, I'm putting my SD hat on here - - all the "stats" don't add up, at least for me.  My queasiness increases......SIGH

If indeed there is a woman, and she does have debt, and she feels she has a vocation at her age, God bless her. The Lord will make a way for her as we are not the First National Bank of Vocation Station! :}   At 55 years of age she must have many friends, a local church community, family, etc. that would be more than happy to help her deal with her debt.  I will pray for her.  BTW according to the IRL that particular Carmel's age limit is 39.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Francis Clare

[vee]

 

11 minutes ago, Francis Clare said:

 BTW according to the IRL that particular Carmel's age limit is 39.

Last time I read the gofundme page it seems she is being considered as an extern.  I dont know a whole lot about externs but my impression is that communities can be more flexible with age for that, and may even prefer someone who is a bit older for it. 

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, Francis Clare said:

   BTW according to the IRL that particular Carmel's age limit is 39.

They also say they take belated vocations - and I'm positive I've seen elsewhere that they actually mean it; as well as what Vee says about externs usually having slightly different requirements.  

[beatitude]

I can understand people being reluctant to give money to someone they don't know personally. But there is a difference between that reluctance and the cynicism and the judgmental insinuations we have here. It's been implied that this woman is somehow selfish and lazy not to pay off her own debt, when for all we know she's working day and night to do it. It's been implied that she's somehow flighty because she has had several different jobs, when there are multiple reasons why someone might work in different fields. It seems strange to me that the same people who are reluctant to donate to this woman based on lack of knowledge of her circumstances are quite happy to toss out judgments in spite of that lack of knowledge. If you don't know enough to donate, you probably don't know enough to judge either.

It is very easy to verify if a discerner is who she says she is - you contact the monastery for confirmation. Because of that ease of verification, pretending to be a candidate for the religious life must be one of the worst ways of getting money under false pretences that there is. Is there a guarantee that the discerner will stay after they enter? No. But that's true even for people whom we know well. If you think that this woman's employment history and debt make her look like an unlikely candidate, she's a lot less unlikely than the apostle Matthew, or so many of the others Christ has called; and we should never hand over our expectations with our charity anyway. We aren't 'buying' a share in a sister when we help out a candidate for religious life. We're just smoothing her path, and where that path will lead, God knows. So why speculate over a stranger in this way? If you feel drawn to help out financially, help her; if you don't, then don't. It's simple enough.

I will not be giving to this fundraiser because I've already chosen the recipients for my Christmas donations and I don't have any more money. I also think that the people I've chosen are in greater need than this woman, so I would have been unlikely to prioritise her even if I'd known about her sooner. We do have to be prudent in how we give and we can't empty our pockets every time someone asks. But there are other forms of charity than just giving money. It costs us very little, for example, to believe the best of people. Patrick might be a fraudster, but we don't have evidence for that, so why assume that this is a money-grab? Why can't he be who he says he is, a non-Catholic friend who is very excited about a friend's vocation and who is keen to do something to show his support? Charity literally means love, and it's possible to be miserly and mean-spirited in our thinking as well as in how we spend money. If VS were inundated with requests for money, I'd understand the frustration, but we aren't.

It's nearly Christmas. Let's keep it kind.

[Feankie]

Ok, that did it.  I'm out of here.  It seems we have a bit of passive-aggressivness going on.  I wish you all well.  It appears to me that some opinions are valued more than others and the "others" are dismissed or slapped on their hands.  Bye.

[PatrickGann]

4 hours ago, beatitude said:

It is very easy to verify if a discerner is who she says she is - you contact the monastery for confirmation. Because of that ease of verification, pretending to be a candidate for the religious life must be one of the worst ways of getting money under false pretences that there is.

beatitude, thank you.

Please do call the Erie monastery and ask if they have a candidate for postulancy named Mariette, who is working down her debt as her final "hurdle" before she can enter. They will tell you yes. Please, however, do not make it known that you know she's been accepted as an Extern Sister. We *intentionally* kept those words off of the GoFundMe page because there are people at the monastery, other Sisters, who don't know that this position (new to that particular monastery) is happening, and the Prioress didn't want them to know until Mariette entered as a Postulant. I don't know *why* this is the case -- I seriously do not understand the logic. But yes, as some of you have put two&two together, that is how and why she was able to become a candidate for Postulancy despite her age. That, and her career as a social worker / therapist (and the battery of psychological tests they throw at any candidate) all suggested she'd be perfect for the role.

I will finally say -- while I did include the link and say "if you feel led, give," my PRIMARY purpose (and I believe I put it in order of greatest need) was to find out what resources existed so that I could help. Some of you told me about KoC and Catholic Daughters (which Mariette has already reached out to). Others mentioned Mater Ecclesiae and Laboure Society, which she is now working at applying to thanks to your advice.

I did and do not mean to "start a trend" where Vocation Station becomes the place where people beg for money. If that's the precedent I've set ... well, stepping back and looking at it, that would be upsetting. And I did not mean to disturb the Phatmass community & phorums as such. I am seriously just trying to help a friend, and I do believe with all my heart that God has been calling her to this, and time will prove it out. Maybe the fault is mine for being impatient, or maybe having an open space to donate to this individual was inspired. Time will tell.

In any case, it'd be pretty bold of me to attempt fraud given I've made my identity known from the first moment. You can find me on Facebook or Twitter, easily. I am attending a school for an MSW, and I used to write a ton of reviews for videogames and music, because I'm something of a technophile. I'm not hiding in the shadows, so if I suddenly went from foodstamps to sweet new car, you'd know I stole donors' money. It's not who I am. So you can verify me with a little googling, and you can verify Mariette and her status as an Aspirant by calling Erie's Carmelite monastery on the phone.

*exhales*

So we're all good now, right?

Patrick

[Benedictus]

PatrickGann -  I'll keep your friend, Mariette, in my prayers. I hope people, even if they don't donate, can give you help regarding resources and so on. There have been a few people on here who've had to pay off debts and they might have tips and advice that is constructive.

The diocese, such as a director of vocations, might be able to tell you about trusts, charitable funds or private sources that will help those entering orders etc. Sometimes private and corporate donors will help someone. The debts themselves would resurface if they decided to leave, which seems fair. I didn't really have debts before I entered, so I was lucky. 

It's too bad some people wanted to turn your thread into a debate about money funding and your intentions (and your friends situation), it's not nice reading. I think you've justified yourself enough, so I'd ignore any negativity and rashness posted on here.

The life experience and work experience of your friend would be an asset to a community, and I think the superior would clearly see that. I hope it works out for your friend and I hope she finds Gods ultimate grace and peace in Carmel.

[miserere55]

This is an interesting post, Patrick...one that gives me (and other belated vocations) hope!  I am in Mariette's age group--but single, with no dependents or debt--and actually contacted the Erie Carmelites about their revised age limits, etc.  I was told that they would only accept younger vocations in the summer of 2015.  Mariette's acceptance was in October!  I'm left wondering what happened.  Does anyone (Patrick, perhaps) have any insight?

[Pia Jesu]

On 12/23/2015, 11:49:53, truthfinder said:

They also say they take belated vocations - and I'm positive I've seen elsewhere that they actually mean it; as well as what Vee says about externs usually having slightly different requirements.  

Sigh...the Erie Carmelites' website used to say that "God calls when He wills" (with regards to age limits).  After inquiring myself, I was told that belated vocations are no longer being accepted.  Lots of confusion here.

[truthfinder]

23 minutes ago, Pia Jesu said:

Sigh...the Erie Carmelites' website used to say that "God calls when He wills" (with regards to age limits).  After inquiring myself, I was told that belated vocations are no longer being accepted.  Lots of confusion here.

That's really too bad.