Supporting a Carmelite's vocation (GoFundMe)

[PatrickGann]

Hi all,

My name is Patrick. I'm not Catholic, but I am a Christian. I have a dear friend who has been accepted into the Carmelite monastery in Erie, PA. As with other mendicant orders (as I'm sure you all know), my friend will be living without any earthly possessions. AND, of course, she needs to clear any remaining debt, which at this point, is mostly student loan debt.

I have set up a GoFundMe page in an attempt to help her receive funds. My friend, Mariette, has also reached out to the Knights of Columbus and other charitable organizations, as well as the Mater Ecclesiae for a possible scholarship.

I have come here asking the following of this community:

1) continued prayers for the fulfillment of this vocation
2) any advice on how to best get the word out to help clear this debt
3) as you feel led and are able, please consider donating.

Thanks so much,
Patrick

[DominicanHeart]

The Laboure Society is also great

[PatrickGann]

Thank you DominicanHeart. Will look into Laboure Society.

Also, since I can't seem to find an "Edit" button -- the URL to the GFM page:

https://www.gofundme.com/mariette

[RoseOfGuadalupe]

Is it the JMJ Carmel? My friend is entering there on Jan. 6!

Edited December 21, 2015 by RoseOfGuadalupe

[PatrickGann]

7 hours ago, RoseOfGuadalupe said:

Is it the JMJ Carmel? My friend is entering there on Jan. 6!

I don't think so. The only JMJ Carmel in PA is in Elysburg, right? That's center state, Erie is northwest. Blessings to your friend, however!

[marigold]

250k, Lord have mercy.

[By His Grace Alone]

13 hours ago, marigold said:

250k, Lord have mercy.

You must have misread. Actually, the amount they are requesting is $30,000 to pay back student loans for a woman in her 50's not 250K. They have received $250 in donations thus far. I have to say that I regret all the sacrificing, shrimping and saving I did in addition to working 3 jobs 7 days a week for 10 years to cover debts. Gee, I should have just put up a Go Fund Me page and let everyone else pay the debts I racked up for me.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

On first thought, GoFundMe seems like an creative way to try to raise funds to pay debt.

But anyone who gives money to a complete stranger so they can enter Religious Life needs to look into their heart before they donate money. With ANYONE who enters Monastic life, there is a chance that they will not remain with their Community. Leaving a Community doesn't necessarily say anything about the good character of the candidate, the candidate's vocation, or even about the Community. It could simply be that the candidate and Community were not a good "fit," that the candidate developed a health problem, or that it was the "wrong time." There is no shame in leaving a Community, especially as a postulant or a novice--that is what those years are for. If a woman leaves a Community after taking vows there is no shame in that, either, although it is a more serious matter. Still, I can't imagine a woman in vows leaving a Community "on a whim" or without months of prayer beforehand. 

One of the problems I see with using crowdfunding is that if someone gives money to a complete stranger, they might feel disappointed, or even that they were misled, if the candidate does not perservere to final/solemn vows. I can understand this feeling. For myself, I think I'd probably feel better about donating to a candidate whom I personally "knew" even if it was only online, or to donate to Mater Ecclesiae or the Labore Society so that your donation is not tied to the future of a specific candidate. However, I've never donated to a complete stranger, so perhaps I am a better person than I think I am, and would not feel disappointed at all. Still, I think it is a good question to ask yourself. Over the years, there have been several candidates on Vocation Station who were trying to pay off debt (and there may be some now whose names I can's remember off the top of my head) so anyone who feels called by God to donate to a candidate has plenty of options to choose from.

Edited December 22, 2015 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

25 minutes ago, By His Grace Alone said:

You must have misread. Actually, the amount they are requesting is $30,000 to pay back student loans for a woman in her 50's not 250K. They have received $250 in donations thus far. I have to say that I regret all the sacrificing, shrimping and saving I did in addition to working 3 jobs 7 days a week for 10 years to cover debts. Gee, I should have just put up a Go Fund Me page and let everyone else pay the debts I racked up for me.

I can see how it might feel as if a person using crowdfunding to pay her debts is "taking the easy way out" rather than working extra hard to pay off her own debts. I haven't read this particular person's GoFundMe page, so, I don't know anything about her specific situation.

I do feel that there is something good about taking responsibility for paying off your own debts, especially if they are due to your own spending rather than college tuition. 

However, I also know of situations where a candidate HAS been working hard for years at paying off debt, and is having trouble paying off the final amounts, or as in one case I know about, found out after she was accepted that because the Community is poor, they needed her to pay for certain expenses (such as medical coverage) during her postulant and novitiate years, so needed to raise extra money for that.

[PatrickGann]

5 hours ago, IgnatiusofLoyola said:

I can see how it might feel as if a person using crowdfunding to pay her debts is "taking the easy way out" rather than working extra hard to pay off her own debts. I haven't read this particular person's GoFundMe page, so, I don't know anything about her specific situation.

I do feel that there is something good about taking responsibility for paying off your own debts, especially if they are due to your own spending rather than college tuition. 

However, I also know of situations where a candidate HAS been working hard for years at paying off debt, and is having trouble paying off the final amounts, or as in one case I know about, found out after she was accepted that because the Community is poor, they needed her to pay for certain expenses (such as medical coverage) during her postulant and novitiate years, so needed to raise extra money for that.

Yes, that that and that.

I paid off my own student loan debts. Well, the first time 'round anyway (I'm back in school getting an MSW, and it'll take me awhile to pay those off).

The debt Mariette has is, obviously, not her full debt coming out of school. I cannot tell you her whole life story as I am not at liberty to do so, but it's worth noting that she got her bachelors and masters degree (leading to work as an LSW) later in life, so the debt is more recent; her earned money has been 1) paying day-to-day expenses, 2) paying off debt, and 3) tithing, for as long as she has been gainfully employed. So "By His Grace Alone," I'd encourage you to have a little grace yourself and knock it off with the smug replies. After all, *I'M* the one putting on a crowdfunding fundraiser for a friend and mentor: she didn't launch her own campaign. She is seeking aid from Knights of Columbus and Catholic Daughters and Mater Ecclesiae in addition to what I'm trying to help raise. I only posted here to seek advice for others who have been on the journey and see what support was out there. None of that was her doing, though she is aware that I am doing this work to help her.

IoL -- it's rare that I give to strangers. When I do, I do so with hopes and trusts that God will help that person put it to best use. But I do not typically reach out to strangers. Most of the people who see this crowdfunding page are my own friends, and many of them have at least heard *of* Mariette through my own life experiences, with her being a good friend and mentor. I posted the page here primarily so others in the community could read the page and get the gist of her story and perhaps give insight. If people want to give, they can. If you think it's warranted, I may add a disclaimer that being an Aspirant moving into Postulancy, there is no *guarantee* that Mariette will remain a nun forever, so you'd be donating "on good faith."

Also, you may not be the real Ignatius of Loyola, but I appreciate the choice of namesake. Among all the historical figures in Christendom, he is one of a handful of which I hold in highest regards.

Patrick

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

1 hour ago, PatrickGann said:

Yes, that that and that.

I paid off my own student loan debts. Well, the first time 'round anyway (I'm back in school getting an MSW, and it'll take me awhile to pay those off).

The debt Mariette has is, obviously, not her full debt coming out of school. I cannot tell you her whole life story as I am not at liberty to do so, but it's worth noting that she got her bachelors and masters degree (leading to work as an LSW) later in life, so the debt is more recent; her earned money has been 1) paying day-to-day expenses, 2) paying off debt, and 3) tithing, for as long as she has been gainfully employed. So "By His Grace Alone," I'd encourage you to have a little grace yourself and knock it off with the smug replies. After all, *I'M* the one putting on a crowdfunding fundraiser for a friend and mentor: she didn't launch her own campaign. She is seeking aid from Knights of Columbus and Catholic Daughters and Mater Ecclesiae in addition to what I'm trying to help raise. I only posted here to seek advice for others who have been on the journey and see what support was out there. None of that was her doing, though she is aware that I am doing this work to help her.

IoL -- it's rare that I give to strangers. When I do, I do so with hopes and trusts that God will help that person put it to best use. But I do not typically reach out to strangers. Most of the people who see this crowdfunding page are my own friends, and many of them have at least heard *of* Mariette through my own life experiences, with her being a good friend and mentor. I posted the page here primarily so others in the community could read the page and get the gist of her story and perhaps give insight. If people want to give, they can. If you think it's warranted, I may add a disclaimer that being an Aspirant moving into Postulancy, there is no *guarantee* that Mariette will remain a nun forever, so you'd be donating "on good faith."

Also, you may not be the real Ignatius of Loyola, but I appreciate the choice of namesake. Among all the historical figures in Christendom, he is one of a handful of which I hold in highest regards.

Patrick

I apologize if I came off as smug--that was not my intention. I've been posting in Vocation Station for more than five years now and there have been many aspirants who have posted their problems with paying off their debts (usually student loans) to enter the monastery. I know (well, secondhand) how hard it is.

I think crowdfunding is certainly worth a try. I sincerely hope it works.

The reason I brought up the concept that people should think about it before helping to fund the vocation of a stranger is that it's not uncommon that an aspirant leaves during postulancy/novitiate. In fact, as I've been observing for five years, even in the healthiest, most respected Communities, at least 25% of entrants (or more) leave during postulancy/novitiate. (I have NO hard data on this, because many Communities do not post their entrances on the Internet, much less their exits--and not posting exits is how it should be for the privacy of both the woman involved and the Community.) If a donor knows an aspirant, the donor is more likely to have kept in touch and know if the entrant has left, and why. I have really only been involved in one crowdfunding-type of situation, and that entrant left within a year. However, I "knew" the person, however superficially, from emails, so even though I still don't know exactly why she left, I have no regrets in donating to her effort.

Actually, the intent of my post was, at least partially asking myself if "I" would have regrets if I gave money to a stranger who then left after a year. Would I feel that I had wasted my money, especially since I knew it would not be paid back? However, this concern really applies to most crowdfunding efforts, where we are taking on faith the sincerity of the person asking for funds.

And, I certainly do not look down on aspirants who very much want to be in religious life, but have student loans to pay off. There have been too many women here on Vocation Station who have been in that situation for me to feel anything but sympathetic. In addition to her student debt, I'm sure it's been tough for your friend being a "later vocation" since many Communities will not accept an entrant in her 50's. I can relate to that since most VS posters are quite young, and I am old enough to be the mother of many VS posters.

And, no, I am nothing like St. Ignatius of Loyola (especially since I am a woman). I simply was blessed to be born on the feast day of St. Ignatius of Loyola. And, I have nothing to be smug about since, like you, I am a non-Catholic Christian.

If your friend would like to post here, we would welcome her. It's always nice for us to have a specifc "name" (even if it's a screen name) to pray for. For privacy, most of us never reveal our real names except if we get to know someone over time via Private Messages/emails. People here know me as "Iggy," and very few know my real name.

[marigold]

8 hours ago, By His Grace Alone said:

You must have misread. Actually, the amount they are requesting is $30,000 to pay back student loans for a woman in her 50's not 250K. They have received $250 in donations thus far. I have to say that I regret all the sacrificing, shrimping and saving I did in addition to working 3 jobs 7 days a week for 10 years to cover debts. Gee, I should have just put up a Go Fund Me page and let everyone else pay the debts I racked up for me.

Oops, serves me right for phatmassing in the middle of the night!

[PatrickGann]

IoL,

The "smugness" statement was in reference to user "By His Grace Alone" who wrote:

"I have to say that I regret all the sacrificing, shrimping and saving I did in addition to working 3 jobs 7 days a week for 10 years to cover debts. Gee, I should have just put up a Go Fund Me page and let everyone else pay the debts I racked up for me."

Totally uncalled for. Also, here's my smugness: unless you were *actually* on a shrimping boat, the word you were looking for is SCRIMPING. You're welcome.

I'm using my real name here ... I use my real name everywhere, haven't really had a problem with it in 20+ years of internet usage. I tell myself it would make identity theft harder, because there'd be more to steal. Like ... I have more backups, more "redundant servers" of data to prove which is the real me in such a situation (ie towards a bank). And I'm also not afraid of stalkers and such. It seems statistically unlikely.

What a blessing to be born on the feast day of St. Ignatius! And my apologies for assuming you were male.

[Feankie]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel kind of uncomfortable with this.  One of my fears is this will set a precedent and the Phorum will turn into a fund-raising entity for persons  who have not been active here.  There are a few orgs out that that have already been mentioned and several that have not such as the Knights of Columbus and the Serra (sp) Club.  Yes, I'm a very charitable person as you know from my membership in the Order of Malta, but a a SD I just have this bit of a queasy feeling in my gut.  I could be SO wrong.......

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

1 hour ago, PatrickGann said:

I'm using my real name here ... I use my real name everywhere, haven't really had a problem with it in 20+ years of internet usage. I tell myself it would make identity theft harder, because there'd be more to steal. Like ... I have more backups, more "redundant servers" of data to prove which is the real me in such a situation (ie towards a bank). And I'm also not afraid of stalkers and such. It seems statistically unlikely.

What a blessing to be born on the feast day of St. Ignatius! And my apologies for assuming you were male.

The reason I use a screen name here (and on all other discussion forums to which I belong) isn't so much for identity theft reasons, (although that is a concern nowdays--I know several people who have been victims of identity theft, although they didn't take the extra steps that you take. Also, I'm not sure that one aspect of identity theft--that is, illegally using someone else's credit care is THAT unlikely. My town of about 30,000 people has the police blotter posted in the local paper each week, and almost every week there are at least 5 or 6 people who have reported misuse of credit cards to the police. I assume that many people don't report this to the police, but handle it with their credit card company, so it's probably more common that the police blotter would suggest).

The main reason I use a unique username for Phatmass is in case my family googles my name. Although my family were once devout Episcopalians, most of them are now atheists, or agnostics at best. I'm not ashamed of posting here, but I'd just as soon avoid the hassle with my family. At this point, none of them are going to change, and I don't feel like fighting.

9 minutes ago, Francis Clare said:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel kind of uncomfortable with this.  One of my fears is this will set a precedent and the Phorum will turn into a fund-raising entity for persons  who have not been active here.  There are a few orgs out that that have already been mentioned and several that have not such as the Knights of Columbus and the Serra (sp) Club.  Yes, I'm a very charitable person as you know from my membership in the Order of Malta, but a a SD I just have this bit of a queasy feeling in my gut.  I could be SO wrong.......

I hadn't thought of this possible implication. We know that Phatmass gets a LOT of visitors, usually more visitors than members, so I guess this is a possibility.

Although discerners usually hold back certain information for various reasons, we still get to know discerners pretty well, and while discerners generally don't specifically ask for donations, I expect they do get some donations from people who post on Vocation Station. (Patrick--You may want to read the Vocation Station guidelines pinned to the top of the Vocation Station sub-phorum for an explanation of why we recommend that discerners hold back certain information, and why there are certain things we don't discuss--it's not being paranoid--it's based on experience, particularly because Phatmass DOES show up on Google, Bing, and other search sites.  http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136246-introduction-to-vocation-station/#comment-2524428  )