Break up with my girlfriend?

[Cam42]

You made a comment earlier that you were quoting the ESV.  Not a good source.  If you have the other translations, I'd use one of those.  (Personally, I read the Vulgate.  It solves a lot of problems.  If I'm forced to read in English, it's the DR and/or RSVCE.)  Just an observation.  And a bit of friendly advice.

As for the rest, no problem, friend.

 

[Peace]

4 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

You made a comment earlier that you were quoting the ESV.  Not a good source.  If you have the other translations, I'd use one of those.  (Personally, I read the Vulgate.  It solves a lot of problems.  If I'm forced to read in English, it's the DR and/or RSVCE.)  Just an observation.  And a bit of friendly advice.

As for the rest, no problem, friend.

 

The Vulgate?!! Wow. Impressive. "We are not worthy".

I think the ESV is a fine translation for most purposes. I do not feel like debating it though.

[Cam42]

Just now, Peace said:

The Vulgate?!! Wow. Impressive. "We are not worthy".

I think the ESV is a fine translation for most purposes. I do not feel like debating it though.

15 years of Latin...and it is definitive.  Hard to beat it.  It isn't about worthiness.  Don't be a smart@$$.  There is just no need for it.

You're wrong about the ESV.  Just sayin'.

[Ash Wednesday]

Again, can we just stay on topic. Please.

I'm not sure what the topic is anymore but I think it's something about Peace and his girlfriend...dating...chastity...relationship decisions....etc.

[Peace]

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

15 years of Latin...and it is definitive.  Hard to beat it.  It isn't about worthiness.  Don't be a smart@$$.  There is just no need for it.

You're wrong about the ESV.  Just sayin'.

I could not care less about how many years of Latin you had.

Just sayin'.

[Ash Wednesday]

For the last time, I am asking all of you -- and I mean all of you -- to quit with the bickering. Be constructive, stay on topic, or I will lose my patience and lock this thread.

And if you want to debate bibles, please start a topic on the debate table.

[Peace]

38 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

15 years of Latin...and it is definitive.  Hard to beat it.  It isn't about worthiness.  Don't be a smart@$$.  There is just no need for it.

You're wrong about the ESV.  Just sayin'.

Cam42:

I am sorry about what I wrote. I apologize. I was wrong.

It can be a little frustrating because sometimes you speak to people as though you have authority over them. I am an adult. I work and put food on my own table. I don't like it when someone talks to me like I am a child.

Peace

[MarysLittleFlower]

Some observations for Era about being human God has a reason and a will. We have a reason and a will given by God. This makes us persons. We are made in God's image.

So we need to use our intellect and will to please God. The definition of goodness is from Him.

Part of how God made us is to know Him and love Him. Therefore growing in knowledge and love of God is the correct use of our faculties and of what defines us as human persons. Using them to know self apart from God leads to a false or incomplete understanding. 

If we separate reason and will from the moral code given by God, we would be ruled by our passions or false reasoning. We would be more like animals than humans, who can't reason - in fact worse than animals because they can't sin and aren't abusing reason since they lack it. I don't know Era how you define what good is. Some things are natural law others are revealed. But our conscience needs to be formed correctly or it would be influenced by concupiscence. 

[Cam42]

2 hours ago, Peace said:

Cam42:

I am sorry about what I wrote. I apologize. I was wrong.

It can be a little frustrating because sometimes you speak to people as though you have authority over them. I am an adult. I work and put food on my own table. I don't like it when someone talks to me like I am a child.

Peace

Speaking in a straightforward manner is not treating you like a child.  But I am not nor have I ever been one to be super emotive on this site or in real life.  Not to mention that it is darn near impossible to convey emotion, so I don't try.  And unless you've been posting here for 10 years or have been in private conversations with those who have, you don't have enough information to make that statement.

It is my responsibility to catechize.  It is my responsibility to do this, whether one is 5 or 50.  I don't speak to you as if you are a child.  I speak to you assuming that you're mature enough to respond like an adult.  That still holds.  When you post a topic, you are opening up to responses.  I responded.  You can choose to ignore what I post, or not.  There is no malice.

I know I have a reputation here.  It isn't unfounded, completely.  Later, dude.  BTW, I am not challenging your Catholicism.  I'm trying to give you a different perspective on an issue you've asked for help with.....Sorry, Homes, just trying to do what you are asking.

[tinytherese]

As far as dating someone with different beliefs, I've been given the advice not to discuss religion with them unless the other person specifically brings it up or if it your differing beliefs directly affect the relationship (chastity, contraception, which faith the children would be raised if you married, etc.) Otherwise, lecturing them on Catholicism without them showing any interest in the subject can turn them off to the faith and can lead them to resent you, dump you, and just lead to overall relationship dissatisfaction. 

Pray for them, ask fellow Catholics to pray for them, and live your faith as a witness to them. Maybe in the future they'll convert. Then again, maybe they never will. Some can handle being married to someone with different religious beliefs and others can't. Neither of them are wrong. Ask yourself what you honestly can and can't handle and not just in terms of different religious beliefs. "Can I live with that trait for the rest of my life?"

I know that finding the right person isn't easy, but please don't settle. Just picture what it would be like if you found out after your wedding that she or another woman settled for you. I imagine that that you would feel hurt. Your wife would feel the same way if she discovered that you settled for her. 

[Era Might]

Peace, have you ever read "The Man in My Basement" by Walter Mosley? Check it out, you mentioned you're black and the novel is about a black guy and a girl he's pursuing (and a strange white guy who pays him to be caged in his basement in atonement for some unnamed sins against humanity). Excellent novel, I was just thinking about it and for some reason it reminded me of this thread.

From Amazon:

"In this stand-alone literary tale, themes are in the forefront as Mosley abandons action in favor of a volatile, sometimes unspoken dialogue between Charles Blakey and Anniston Bennet. Blakey, descended from a line of free blacks reaching back into 17th-century America, lives alone in the big family house in Sag Harbor. Bennet is a mysterious white man who approaches Blakey with a strange proposition-to be locked up in Blakey's basement-that Blakey comes to accept only reluctantly and with reservations. The magnitude of Bennet's wealth, power and influence becomes apparent gradually, and his quest for punishment and, perhaps, redemption, proves unsettling-to the reader as well as to Blakey, who finds himself trying to understand Bennet as well as trying to recast his own relatively purposeless life. The shifting power relationship between Bennet and Blakey works nicely, and it is fitting that Blakey's thoughts find expression more in physicality than in contemplation; his involvements with earthy, sensual Bethany and racially proud, sophisticated and educated Narciss reflect differing possibilities. The novel, written in adorned prose that allows the ideas to breathe, will hold readers rapt; it is Mosley's most philosophical novel to date, as he explores guilt, punishment, responsibility and redemption as individual and as social constructs. While it will be difficult for this novel to achieve the kind of audience Mosley's genre fiction does, the author again demonstrates his superior ability to tackle virtually any prose form, and he is to be applauded for creating a rarity, an engaging novel of ideas."

Edited December 14, 2015 by Era Might

[Peace]

13 hours ago, Cam42 said:

Speaking in a straightforward manner is not treating you like a child.  But I am not nor have I ever been one to be super emotive on this site or in real life.  Not to mention that it is darn near impossible to convey emotion, so I don't try.  And unless you've been posting here for 10 years or have been in private conversations with those who have, you don't have enough information to make that statement.

It is my responsibility to catechize.  It is my responsibility to do this, whether one is 5 or 50.  I don't speak to you as if you are a child.  I speak to you assuming that you're mature enough to respond like an adult.  That still holds.  When you post a topic, you are opening up to responses.  I responded.  You can choose to ignore what I post, or not.  There is no malice.

I know I have a reputation here.  It isn't unfounded, completely.  Later, dude.  BTW, I am not challenging your Catholicism.  I'm trying to give you a different perspective on an issue you've asked for help with.....Sorry, Homes, just trying to do what you are asking.

I did not ask for your opinion on which Bible translation to use, among other things, but no worries.

As for the manner in which you address me on the site - I do not mind it when someone speaks in a straight-forward manner. What you did was jump into the thread out of nowhere and bark commands at me. That is not appreciated. I am just telling you how I perceive your posts. Maybe I have been guilty of the same thing when I write to other people here on the site.

Now whether that is your intention or not I do not know. But that is how you often come across, to me at least. The way that you communicate a point can be a barrier to getting your point across in an effective manner. If the person you are speaking to feels that you do not respect him, he will not be very interested in what you have to say, even if it is a legitimate point. Again - I have been guilty of that as well.

If you are serious about your "responsibility to catechize" you might take a moment to consider that the manner in which you communicate may have a negative effect on what you desire to accomplish. I should do the same.

Peace

4 hours ago, Era Might said:

Peace, have you ever read "The Man in My Basement" by Walter Mosley? Check it out, you mentioned you're black and the novel is about a black guy and a girl he's pursuing (and a strange white guy who pays him to be caged in his basement in atonement for some unnamed sins against humanity). Excellent novel, I was just thinking about it and for some reason it reminded me of this thread.

It sounds interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Papist]

On 12/11/2015, 6:40:51, Peace said:

 

OK. Here are the facts:

1)  I am Catholic. She is a non-denominational Christian. She goes to her church. I go to mine. Every once in a while she will come to Mass with me. She is not particularly anti-Catholic. She has not had any meaningful exposure to it prior to dating me. She is African-American, like myself, and grew up in a Baptist church.

2) She is pro-choice. She supports the traditional definition of marriage (1 man and 1 woman). I don’t understand how a professed Christian can think that gay marriage should be not be legalized, but can think that is OK for a person to kill an unborn child. I just don’t get that. That worries me.

3) So we have performed the “marital act” a few times. I spoke to my priest about that, and as you might expect, the priest was like “cut that out.” So then I spoke to her about it and was like “Hey. We should cut that out, right? We should at least try to do what we know is right.”

She agreed to cut it out, but it seems that she agreed only because I had asked. Her attitude was like “Yeah. I know that it is wrong, but I just didn't feel like being abstinent.”

So later on during the same conversation, she told me how it freaked her out that sometimes I pray with my eyes open. Apparently, it was almost a deal-breaker for her the first time that she saw me pray with my eyes open.

This worries me. I mean – how is it that a person is not bothered by something that God clearly forbids, but yet is bothered by something that is a matter of personal preference or custom?

4) Other than some things like this – she is a great person. Honestly, we get along great and I really enjoy spending time with her.

But I am concerned. Before we started dating, my impression of her was that she was a fairly committed Christian, but as I have gotten to know her more, it is starting to seem to me that our core moral compass is a bit different.

I am a human being, I make my various mistakes. But I try to set what I believe God commands as the standard to which I try to adhere to. We have not discussed it explicitly, but I am starting to think that this is not the case with her, based on some things like what you see above. It seems that in a sense she is just setting her own desires and personal beliefs as the standard. It is just starting to seem that she does not really have any objective standard by which she lives, which perhaps is one what typically becomes by going to a non-denominational church. . .

5) She will ask me a fair amount of questions about Catholicism. Sometimes I will ask her questions about what she believes, and how she knows that it is true. I think that she is starting to realize that the ground she is standing on is shaky, but I don’t think she is a person who has a strong inclination for theology, rational thought, or “the truth” if you will. She is more of an emotional being. I think she operates more so on what something makes her feel, rather than whether it is true or not true.

Anyway. I am concerned. Any thoughts? I would like to continue dating her for a bit to see how it goes, and like I said, I think that we really get along great. Honestly, it is pretty rare that I come across a person that I like as much as I like her.

I just wish that she weren’t such a heretic. J/K

Should I try to explain my reservations? Should I just sit her down and be like “Look baby, you got no morals. You need to get some.”?

Any other approach that I might want to take with this?

Yes!  You need to have this conversation with her. Be honest and totally open even if that means being vulnerable. Do NOT have the fantasy that she will change. Change she might, but do NOT make any decision based on your hope she will change. You need to make decisions based on what you know, not what you want/wish will be.  Be loving and charitable. Do NOT be critical of her, i.e. "you got no morals".  Make sure it is not what you dislike about her. The conversation ought to be about you both. 

One more thing, LISTEN to her. Do not try to convert her in this conversation.  Good luck and God bless you.

[Peace]

13 hours ago, tinytherese said:

As far as dating someone with different beliefs, I've been given the advice not to discuss religion with them unless the other person specifically brings it up or if it your differing beliefs directly affect the relationship (chastity, contraception, which faith the children would be raised if you married, etc.) Otherwise, lecturing them on Catholicism without them showing any interest in the subject can turn them off to the faith and can lead them to resent you, dump you, and just lead to overall relationship dissatisfaction.

 

Thanks. This is pretty good advice I think. You don't win somebody over by lecturing them or arguing them down, even if you happen to be correct. The approach that I am going to try to take with it is just to try to be a good representative of the faith and whenever she asks me something, try to respond in a way that is charitable. She has come to Mass with me a few times and is still open to doing that, so I think she can continue to learn about as she is prompted by God. I shouldn't try to force anything.

13 hours ago, tinytherese said:

Pray for them, ask fellow Catholics to pray for them, and live your faith as a witness to them. Maybe in the future they'll convert. Then again, maybe they never will. Some can handle being married to someone with different religious beliefs and others can't. Neither of them are wrong. Ask yourself what you honestly can and can't handle and not just in terms of different religious beliefs. "Can I live with that trait for the rest of my life?"

I know that finding the right person isn't easy, but please don't settle. Just picture what it would be like if you found out after your wedding that she or another woman settled for you. I imagine that that you would feel hurt. Your wife would feel the same way if she discovered that you settled for her. 

I see what you are saying about "settling". At the same time one cannot go unicorn chasing. There are some things about her that I do not like - but there are not many, and I think that most of the things I do not like I can live with.

But yeah - I am still evaluating I think. Not thrilled about the idea of being with a person of a different faith. Sometimes I feel like it might be a deal-breaker. Sometimes not. I am just going to continue to figure it out I think . . .

[Cam42]

54 minutes ago, Peace said:

I did not ask for your opinion on which Bible translation to use, among other things, but no worries.

As for the manner in which you address me on the site - I do not mind it when someone speaks in a straight-forward manner. What you did was jump into the thread out of nowhere and bark commands at me. That is not appreciated. I am just telling you how I perceive your posts. Maybe I have been guilty of the same thing when I write to other people here on the site.

Now whether that is your intention or not I do not know. But that is how you often come across, to me at least. The way that you communicate a point can be a barrier to getting your point across in an effective manner. If the person you are speaking to feels that you do not respect him, he will not be very interested in what you have to say, even if it is a legitimate point. Again - I have been guilty of that as well.

If you are serious about your "responsibility to catechize" you might take a moment to consider that the manner in which you communicate may have a negative effect on what you desire to accomplish. I should do the same.

Peace

It sounds interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks for the criticism.  It has been noted.