Break up with my girlfriend?

[Peace]

OK. Here are the facts:

1)  I am Catholic. She is a non-denominational Christian. She goes to her church. I go to mine. Every once in a while she will come to Mass with me. She is not particularly anti-Catholic. She has not had any meaningful exposure to it prior to dating me. She is African-American, like myself, and grew up in a Baptist church.

2) She is pro-choice. She supports the traditional definition of marriage (1 man and 1 woman). I don’t understand how a professed Christian can think that gay marriage should be not be legalized, but can think that is OK for a person to kill an unborn child. I just don’t get that. That worries me.

3) So we have performed the “marital act” a few times. I spoke to my priest about that, and as you might expect, the priest was like “cut that out.” So then I spoke to her about it and was like “Hey. We should cut that out, right? We should at least try to do what we know is right.”

She agreed to cut it out, but it seems that she agreed only because I had asked. Her attitude was like “Yeah. I know that it is wrong, but I just didn't feel like being abstinent.”

So later on during the same conversation, she told me how it freaked her out that sometimes I pray with my eyes open. Apparently, it was almost a deal-breaker for her the first time that she saw me pray with my eyes open.

This worries me. I mean – how is it that a person is not bothered by something that God clearly forbids, but yet is bothered by something that is a matter of personal preference or custom?

4) Other than some things like this – she is a great person. Honestly, we get along great and I really enjoy spending time with her.

But I am concerned. Before we started dating, my impression of her was that she was a fairly committed Christian, but as I have gotten to know her more, it is starting to seem to me that our core moral compass is a bit different.

I am a human being, I make my various mistakes. But I try to set what I believe God commands as the standard to which I try to adhere to. We have not discussed it explicitly, but I am starting to think that this is not the case with her, based on some things like what you see above. It seems that in a sense she is just setting her own desires and personal beliefs as the standard. It is just starting to seem that she does not really have any objective standard by which she lives, which perhaps is one what typically becomes by going to a non-denominational church. . .

5) She will ask me a fair amount of questions about Catholicism. Sometimes I will ask her questions about what she believes, and how she knows that it is true. I think that she is starting to realize that the ground she is standing on is shaky, but I don’t think she is a person who has a strong inclination for theology, rational thought, or “the truth” if you will. She is more of an emotional being. I think she operates more so on what something makes her feel, rather than whether it is true or not true.

Anyway. I am concerned. Any thoughts? I would like to continue dating her for a bit to see how it goes, and like I said, I think that we really get along great. Honestly, it is pretty rare that I come across a person that I like as much as I like her.

I just wish that she weren’t such a heretic. J/K

Should I try to explain my reservations? Should I just sit her down and be like “Look baby, you got no morals. You need to get some.”?

Any other approach that I might want to take with this?

[Nihil Obstat]

What would happen if you flat out asked her to convert to Catholicism? No beating around the bush, you know?

[Peace]

11 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

What would happen if you flat out asked her to convert to Catholicism? No beating around the bush, you know?

I don't know. I think that she would be very reluctant because she does not understand it. She still has that perception of the Church as a place with a lot of strict rules to be followed. I don't think that she really gets what is good about the Church - but I think that she has started to notice a little bit based on some of her questions, going to Mass, etc. . .
She goes to one of these megachurches with the TVs entertaining music and all of that . . . I think it is more about feelings for her, which is not something that we are really about. . .

I have trouble seeing myself marrying a non-Catholic though. I really do. We have not been dating that long so we are not really even close to that stage though . . .

Edited December 12, 2015 by Peace

[Era Might]

Advice is cheap, since the person giving it has no stake in the consequences. But it sounds like you need to figure yourself out before you figure her out. I don't think the issue is that she has no morals, but that you don't know what you want. You're the man, you have to set the terms of the relationship, always. That doesn't mean you have to set the terms of her....she's still her own person, but if she wants to be with you, you need to let it be known who you are, what you want and need, and what you expect. And you have to always be testing her to see if she's going to respond the way you expect...if not, then you have your answer.

[StMichael]

I have no idea how old you two are, but firstly you need to be an example of Catholicism to her, not expect her to help you through it or be crutch of some sort.

Marrying a non-Catholic isn't an issue unless you cannot control yourself. I know many where one was Catholic and the other protestant and years after marriage, the non-Catholic became Catholic because they were called to it, thanks to their Husband or Wife. 

If you carry on in ways against the teachings, then it shows that these teachings mean nothing. 

She may be pro-choice, but has she had an abortion? Has she advised someone else to have an abortion? This is your challenge to open her eyes. And it is absolutely do-able. The primary argument has been men wanting to control women, blah, blah, blah, but if you have it in you, you need to connect that it is a life as she would not be here without that start, etc. 

As for gay marriage, the nonsense is Love is Love. Then why can't a father marry his daughter? A bisexual marry one from each gender? It is the definition that needs to be corrected. 

If you are strong in faith, than you could make this work.

[Peace]

12 minutes ago, Era Might said:

Advice is cheap, since the person giving it has no stake in the consequences. But it sounds like you need to figure yourself out before you figure her out. I don't think the issue is that she has no morals, but that you don't know what you want. You're the man, you have to set the terms of the relationship, always. That doesn't mean you have to set the terms of her....she's still her own person, but if she wants to be with you, you need to let it be known who you are, what you want and need, and what you expect. And you have to always be testing her to see if she's going to respond the way you expect...if not, then you have your answer.

That actually makes sense. You can't always expect that people will change (although one can hope). But I have to figure out if I would be willing to go forward if she does not.

And I bet that there are a few things I need to change about myself . . .

[Lilllabettt]

are you discerning marriage with this chick. frankly, I don't think serious relationships are for people who are not discerning whether they are called to marry each other.

The whole mission of marriage is sacrifice and self-denial in order to get your partner to heaven. When you get married you are responsible to God in a serious way for what becomes of their soul.

Marriage is a heavy responsibility. And it is a difficult thing to manage even when both people are aware of that responsibility and fully committed.  To do it well, when your partner is not aware/on board, will require heroic sanctity on your part. Just realize that. If you marry this chick, you are responsible for her and sacrificing for her and denying yourself for her ... whether or not she understands she is responsible that same way for you. 

 

[Seven77]

I think that you should look for a good spiritual director, priest preferably, to help you discern this matter… it sounds to me that you really do want to do God's will, and that you care for this girl. What you see as God's will in the whole relationship, especially as the end result? A spiritual director can help you answer these questions…

[CatherineM]

Don't date someone you couldn't marry. Harsh but basic. You can marry someone who isn't Catholic, but marriage is hard enough without that barrier. Ask some of the phatmassers who have done that. Some eventually convert, but not all. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I totally agree with others who said to not date someone you wouldn't marry. The Catholic sense is that the only purpose of dating is to discern marriage. It can be really hard marrying a non Catholic and they'd have to agree to raise the kids Catholic but also about things contraception etc. Also a marriage involves helping each other become a saint. It has to be a life of sacrifice. Are both ready for that? Thirdly is this relationship helping you to grow in holiness right now? Is it centered on Our Lord? To be honest and direct, if your girlfriend is not committed to staying chaste that is very problematic. I'd agree also with speaking to a good SD. But in the end marriage is a vocation to holiness so just something to consider

Edited December 12, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Basilisa Marie]

I think you're looking for us to give you a reason to end it so you don't have to come up with it yourself. 

Or maybe I'm projecting.

Either way. The thing is, if you're dating someone and come to the conclusion that you wouldn't want to be married to them, it's time to end it. As long as the answer is "heck yes!" or "i don't know, I need more info" you're fine. 

There are lots of great people in the world. The trick is to find one who is great for YOU. Does she make you a better person? 

[Freedom]

I'd let her go personally if I was in your position.  Then again my standards are high…so high that the only one good enough for me is the Lord God

[Peace]

Thanks for the responses everyone. That gives me some good things to think about. I am not sure what I will do in the long term, but I don't think that I am breaking up at this point in time. Heck, maybe she will break up with me. I am going to give it a go for a little while longer and see how it goes. Here is the thing - I care about her. I can't just be like "You are a heretic so you are out. Peace!"

She is not perfect. Neither am I. So at least to the extent that I can, I am going to continue to try to show her (hopefully through my actions) what is good about this Catholicism stuff that we all believe in . At the same time, I will try to date in a manner that is consistent with the Christian faith. I am guilty of not having done that so far, so I feel like I need to at least try to walk the walk before calling the whole thing off. If it really comes down to a point where I am convinced that she will never get on board then I guess at that point we will have to split. But I am not convinced of that yet.

9 hours ago, Freedom said:

I'd let her go personally if I was in your position.  Then again my standards are high…so high that the only one good enough for me is the Lord God

LOL. Until George Clooney walks into the room. J/K

[Norseman82]

I'm normally a person who is in the "Catholics shouldn't turn their backs on their own kind" camp, but in this case, I think you should give her another chance for two reasons:

1)  If she truly realizes that she is on "shaky ground", then that could be the Holy Spirit working on her to reform.  Maybe at some point if she sees what abortion really does (I know I did not become fervently anti-abortion until I saw pictures of aborted babies), she may change her view.  In short:  I think the situation is salvageable and there are signs of hope she may embrace Catholicism.  Of course, you still have to follow up (for example, she will need to become against artificial birth control as well, which could be a stumbling block in your marriage and your salvation if she does not follow Church teaching and you do).

2)  Looking at the "big picture", since so much of the dating pool is poisoned (which is why so many good Catholics cannot find compatible spouses), and the two of you have contribued to the contamination through your acts of fornication, then if you break up and seek others, there is a risk that the contamination could affect the non-contaminated parts of the dating pool.  So by trying to staying together, you two could be stopping the contamination from spreading further, and in that way you could atone for what you've done.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

1 hour ago, Norseman82 said:

 

2)  Looking at the "big picture", since so much of the dating pool is poisoned (which is why so many good Catholics cannot find compatible spouses), and the two of you have contribued to the contamination through your acts of fornication, then if you break up and seek others, there is a risk that the contamination could affect the non-contaminated parts of the dating pool.  So by trying to staying together, you two could be stopping the contamination from spreading further, and in that way you could atone for what you've done.

Huh? How does premarital sex "contaminate" a person more than any other sin? Yes, I guess they could have caught STDs, but unless they were careless, they almost certainly did not. In any case, a simple visit to the doctor at the time of an annual physical could give a clean bill of health. STDs are curable and do not physically contaminate someone forever. Bluntly, I can think of far worse sins than premarital sex.

Why should someone have to make a special "atonement" for premarital sex versus any other sin? If a person were to marry the wrong person so as to not further "contaminate" the dating pool (whatever that means) that would be potentially sentencing them to a lifetime of unhappiness. The couple did not physically assault anyone, or rob someone, or use the host to participate in Satanic rites. I assume a Catholic would go to confession as they would for other sins, and a priest (NOT ANY OF US) would decide the appropriate penance.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.