corban711 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 St. John Chrysostom & St. Peter Chrysologus are my #'s 1 and 2. But there are several others I love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 15 minutes ago, Credo in Deum said: What? No love for Ambrose? I like Ambrose because he was known for being really gentle and kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I was born on the feast of St. Peter Chrysologus and he is a Doctor of the Church which is cool. He didn't write much, but we do have a ton of his sermons. And he was known for short sermons and his use of simple, clear language that anyone could understand which is even cooler. But my goodness...when I first encountered some of his stuff in the Liturgy of the Hours I was blown away. Big fan of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 9 minutes ago, corban711 said: I was born on the feast of St. Peter Chrysologus and he is a Doctor of the Church which is cool. He didn't write much, but we do have a ton of his sermons. And he was known for short sermons and his use of simple, clear language that anyone could understand which is even cooler. But my goodness...when I first encountered some of his stuff in the Liturgy of the Hours I was blown away. Big fan of his. I've said that if I'm ever Pope, my biggest goals would be writing short and simple encyclicals people will actually read, and reforming homiletics in the Church. I fervently decided the latter after having listened to a mind-numbing 20 minute homily on mortal sin. A great priest in my old diocese used to tell priests that you can't make a homily longer than 5 minutes, because that's when people stop paying attention and you'll be unnecessarily belaboring the point anyway. I really wish more priests realized that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said: I've said that if I'm ever Pope, my biggest goals would be writing short and simple encyclicals people will actually read, and reforming homiletics in the Church. I fervently decided the latter after having listened to a mind-numbing 20 minute homily on mortal sin. A great priest in my old diocese used to tell priests that you can't make a homily longer than 5 minutes, because that's when people stop paying attention and you'll be unnecessarily belaboring the point anyway. I really wish more priests realized that. YES! See now you're speaking my language. Haha. It's so true. You'd probably like Peter Chrysologus then. If for nothing else, at least for that. I grew up in a parish where homilies were around 30 minutes on Sunday and 15-20 minutes on weekdays. They always gave good talks about morals and sin and what's wrong in our world and in our children, and almost never preached on Jesus or the Gospel. So sad. When I discovered another parish nearby where the pastor didn't allow homilies to be over 8 minutes on Sunday and 5 mins or less on weekdays, I couldn't believe it! Surprisingly to me, I also started remembering everything that was said, would end up talking about it with family and friends afterwards, and started paying more attention at Mass. The shorter homily is a gift. It's like an Irish priest I met used to joke, "I prepared a long homily today because I hadn't the time to prepare a short one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 23 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said: I've said that if I'm ever Pope, my biggest goals would be writing short and simple encyclicals people will actually read, and reforming homiletics in the Church. I fervently decided the latter after having listened to a mind-numbing 20 minute homily on mortal sin. A great priest in my old diocese used to tell priests that you can't make a homily longer than 5 minutes, because that's when people stop paying attention and you'll be unnecessarily belaboring the point anyway. I really wish more priests realized that. I have listened to some truly inspired 15-20 minute homilies, but for the average priest that definitely drags on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Nihil Obstat said: I have listened to some truly inspired 15-20 minute homilies, but for the average priest that definitely drags on. For me, even really good homilies that last that long get overwhelming and belaboring for me. I simply struggle to pay attention after a while, and most others I know feel the same way. I don't know what it is about homilies specifically, really. I listen to hour-long talks all the time with very little issue, but a homily simply feels way too long after 5-8 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 6 hours ago, Credo in Deum said: What? No love for Ambrose? I love the Te Deum that is attributed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I like St Clement too 5 hours ago, corban711 said: YES! See now you're speaking my language. Haha. It's so true. You'd probably like Peter Chrysologus then. If for nothing else, at least for that. I grew up in a parish where homilies were around 30 minutes on Sunday and 15-20 minutes on weekdays. They always gave good talks about morals and sin and what's wrong in our world and in our children, and almost never preached on Jesus or the Gospel. So sad. When I discovered another parish nearby where the pastor didn't allow homilies to be over 8 minutes on Sunday and 5 mins or less on weekdays, I couldn't believe it! Surprisingly to me, I also started remembering everything that was said, would end up talking about it with family and friends afterwards, and started paying more attention at Mass. The shorter homily is a gift. It's like an Irish priest I met used to joke, "I prepared a long homily today because I hadn't the time to prepare a short one." I'd probably like St Peter Chrysologus too but I really don't mind longer sermons. I attend a Latin Mass parish and we have the longer detailed sermons that are typical in such parishes and there are times when its about sin and morals, but other times it would be about spirituality etc. I dobt think the priest doesn't talk about Our Lord and how to love Him. And one of the priests also quotes a lot of cool Saints. The homilies are longer and its a bilingual parish so after they are repeated in another language, which makes it all longer, but I just use that time to pray. The Mass in general is slower so I find my attention span has changed in a way and when I went to another parish recently, everything felt rushed. Anyway I just think this is something people get used to over time and I appreciate the homilies because I learned a lot from them I think longer homilies are fine in my opinion ...I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you guys here I feel like a lot of our attention span is probably due to the media and our culture I found at the beginning when I came to the parish i definitely struggled with my attention span but over time I just got used to it :) Typo: "I don't think.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) 8 hours ago, PhuturePriest said: I've said that if I'm ever Pope, my biggest goals would be writing short and simple encyclicals people will actually read, and reforming homiletics in the Church. I fervently decided the latter after having listened to a mind-numbing 20 minute homily on mortal sin. A great priest in my old diocese used to tell priests that you can't make a homily longer than 5 minutes, because that's when people stop paying attention and you'll be unnecessarily belaboring the point anyway. I really wish more priests realized that. You know I'm writing my dissertation on Catholic preaching, right? I applaud your ambition to reform homiletics. It needs doing. But the problem is very complex. While most (read: 95%) of the homilies I hear are well below par, the reasons may vary for each cleric (including both priests and deacons). Age/generation seems to be a major factor, but I'm exploring the possibility that the real underlying difference there is actually "orientation to the priesthood", i.e., whether a priest sees himself as primarily a pastor or a dispenser of sacraments. Poor homiletics education in seminaries and time constraints on the clerics are also issues. It is not true that you can't make a homily longer than 5 minutes. You can make a homily 45 minutes and it will hold everyone's attention the entire time if it is absolutely gripping. But that's unlikely. So every cleric needs to ask himself: "How long can I talk about this in a way that will engage people?" That's really what determines the desirable length of a homily (well, that, and the Vatican guideline to keep it between 8 and 15 minutes [on a solemnity]!). Edited December 10, 2015 by Gabriela Oh, and: St. Augustine. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charbel Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) 7 hours ago, Gabriela said: It is not true that you can't make a homily longer than 5 minutes. You can make a homily 45 minutes and it will hold everyone's attention the entire time if it is absolutely gripping. But that's unlikely. I've experienced this. This homily was seriously at LEAST an hour, it may have been longer. But it was the most beautiful homily I've had the grace to hear. So much of that homily helped shape my spiritual life and to this day I still run parts through my head. Everyone applauded when it was over. The most amazing part is that this priest runs his homilies entirely on the Holy Spirit. He never plans a word he's going to say, he just asks the Holy Spirit to talk through him. And you could feel the Holy Spirit wash over you as he spoke! Those Masses were truly amesome. His homilies were the ones that stayed with me. I pray for him every day. I still get teary eyed just talking about it. Edited December 10, 2015 by Charbel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 3 hours ago, Charbel said: The most amazing part is that this priest runs his homilies entirely on the Holy Spirit. He never plans a word he's going to say, he just asks the Holy Spirit to talk through him. And you could feel the Holy Spirit wash over you as he spoke! Those Masses were truly amesome. His homilies were the ones that stayed with me. I pray for him every day. For most clergy, this is a VERY bad strategy. And yet, many clerics seem to use it, or at least to "make room for the Holy Spirit" in their homily preparation. Obviously everyone should make room for the Holy Spirit to speak, but the problem arises when a cleric really needs to take more control/ownership/responsibility for his homily, but instead he just says, "Meh. The Holy Spirit will tell me what to say." I'm working presently on the assumption that, for many clerics, this attitude is a coping mechanism for their terribly tight schedules that leave way too little time for homily preparation. The problem is, if your homily is horrible, and this is your attitude, then it's the Holy Spirit's fault your homily was awful. And that just won't fly. I'm glad it works for your priest, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 On 12/9/2015, 8:44:35, PhuturePriest said: I like Ambrose because he was known for being really gentle and kind. What? No love for Saint Nicholas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 35 minutes ago, Credo in Deum said: What? No love for Saint Nicholas? I love Saint Nicholas because he was in fact very sorry that he punched Arius and publicly repented of it. I don't like when people praise him for an action he deeply regretted and wished he hadn't done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 21 hours ago, PhuturePriest said: I love Saint Nicholas because he was in fact very sorry that he punched Arius and publicly repented of it. I don't like when people praise him for an action he deeply regretted and wished he hadn't done. Who says I'm praising him? You want a fresh one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now