Why Do Catholics Claim Francis Is An Anti Pope?

[bardegaulois]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

I didn't even realize they did this until I saw another post from some media outlet. Then put 2 and 2 together. This has to do with Climate Change?

Read on: https://www.lifesitenews.com/petitions/i-oppose-vatican-climate-change-light-show

And from the co-sponsor: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/12/07/public-art-projection-featuring-images-of-humanity-and-climate-change-to-illuminate-st-peters-basilica-on-the-opening-of-the-extraordinary-jubilee-of-mercy-on-december-8

While we're at it, did Bono or Bob Geldof show up as well? How about Malala or any of the other trendy humanitarians?

[dominicansoul]

Here is link to a story found on phatmass' front page:   http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2015/12/10/anyone-who-speaks-critically-of-the-pope-is-not-risking-their-immortal-soul/   It basically explains that constructive, respectful criticism of the Holy Pontiff is not sinful.  But I do believe some Catholics out there take it to the extreme where it isn't respectful but just downright hateful.  That is sinful.

[PhuturePriest]

On 12/9/2015, 12:21:33, bardegaulois said:

The use of St Peter's Basilica for this "climate change" display really skirts sacrilege, if you ask me. Again, I was talking about valid criticisms of Pope Francis; would St John Paul II ever have allowed this?

It wasn't about climate change, it was about the beauty of nature. If you took that to mean we shouldn't destroy the earth, that's a valid thing to take out of it. It's not sacrilegious to display art to show the beauty of creatures. In fact, there are countless paintings inside Saint Peter's that do just that. I see no problem with a temporary display on the outside of it, too.

[bardegaulois]

31 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

It wasn't about climate change, it was about the beauty of nature. If you took that to mean we shouldn't destroy the earth, that's a valid thing to take out of it. It's not sacrilegious to display art to show the beauty of creatures. In fact, there are countless paintings inside Saint Peter's that do just that. I see no problem with a temporary display on the outside of it, too.

"On December 8, a coalition convened by the World Bank Group’s Connect4Climate initiative will present a gift of contemporary public art entitled 'Fiat Lux: Illuminating our Common Home' to Pope Francis on the opening day of the Extraordinary Jubilee of Mercy, to galvanize action and drive global attention to the importance of tackling climate change." [emphasis mine]

This is from the afore-linked press release from the World Bank announcing this: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/12/07/public-art-projection-featuring-images-of-humanity-and-climate-change-to-illuminate-st-peters-basilica-on-the-opening-of-the-extraordinary-jubilee-of-mercy-on-december-8

Likewise, "[a]t this unprecedented and historic event, beautiful images of our shared natural world will be projected onto the façade of St. Peter’s Basilica in a contemporary work of public art that tells the visual story of the interdependency of humans and life on earth with the planet, in order to educate and inspire change around the climate crisis across generations, cultures, languages, religions and class."

Please read what the sponsors have to say about it, and then tell me it wasn't about climate change.

[PhuturePriest]

2 hours ago, bardegaulois said:

"On December 8, a coalition convened by the World Bank Group’s Connect4Climate initiative will present a gift of contemporary public art entitled 'Fiat Lux: Illuminating our Common Home' to Pope Francis on the opening day of the Extraordinary Jubilee of Mercy, to galvanize action and drive global attention to the importance of tackling climate change." [emphasis mine]

This is from the afore-linked press release from the World Bank announcing this: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/12/07/public-art-projection-featuring-images-of-humanity-and-climate-change-to-illuminate-st-peters-basilica-on-the-opening-of-the-extraordinary-jubilee-of-mercy-on-december-8

Likewise, "[a]t this unprecedented and historic event, beautiful images of our shared natural world will be projected onto the façade of St. Peter’s Basilica in a contemporary work of public art that tells the visual story of the interdependency of humans and life on earth with the planet, in order to educate and inspire change around the climate crisis across generations, cultures, languages, religions and class."

Please read what the sponsors have to say about it, and then tell me it wasn't about climate change.

Climate change is seen as a big deal by the Pope. It was also seen as a big deal by his predecessor, Benedict XVI. Obviously Pope Francis is more active in his push to try and get people to understand the gravity of what he feels is a very big issue. If you thought the same as him, you would do the same.

I honestly don't see why this is a big issue. There was a light show with animals in the hopes that it would inspire us to fulfill our God-given duty of being good stewards of the earth. Unless he encourages us to worship animals, I really don't see how this isn't just people getting mad at the Pope for not having the same exact social priorities as they do. Protecting the environment is a very big and important issue, just like abortion and the sanctity of marriage. It's not a sin to focus on one rather than the other. Would it be my main priority? No. But I'm not Pope, and I choose to honor our Holy Father by trusting he is doing the best he can through prayerful discernment, and honoring his Office by not publicly or privately griping about him because he doesn't focus on what I would.

I love the Holy Father as I do all his predecessors, and I pray for him daily. I trust you do as well, and I appreciate your great concern for him and Holy Mother Church.

[veritasluxmea]

I don't have an issue with the lights show or their message, but I do feel uncomfortable with where it was placed. First of all, it's a church, and secondly, inside is the tomb of St Peter- couldn't they have done it on the walls somewhere else, or the floor of St Peter's square? To me it comes across as a little in poor taste, although I'm not terribly upset about it or something 

Edited December 11, 2015 by veritasluxmea

[bardegaulois]

3 minutes ago, veritasluxmea said:

I don't have an issue with the lights show or their message, but I do feel uncomfortable with where it was placed. First of all, it's a church, and secondly, inside is the tomb of St Peter- couldn't they have done it on the walls somewhere else, or the floor of St Peter's square? To me it comes across as a little in poor taste, although I'm not terribly upset about it or something 

That's my point when I say it skirts sacrilege. Had the Pope allowed the World Bank to have used some other feature of the Vatican City State or an audience hall or something of the like, then while I might not have like it very much, I wouldn't be publicly registering my discontent. St Peter's Basilica is a sacred place; it should not be used for light shows.

I should add to my further comments that this is not the first time the Holy See has allowed consecrated areas to be used for profane purposes, and I registered my strong discontent then as well: http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/20/news/companies/porsche-sistine-chapel/

[dominicansoul]

-from Catholic Memes on Facebook   lol!

[Ash Wednesday]

 

On 09/12/2015 06:21:33, bardegaulois said:

The use of St Peter's Basilica for this "climate change" display really skirts sacrilege, if you ask me. Again, I was talking about valid criticisms of Pope Francis; would St John Paul II ever have allowed this?

I personally think he would have been open to it. He did a number of unusual things much like Pope Francis has been doing. But we'll never know for sure. Projection display capabilities really weren't explored much in general during the times of his pontificate, either way.

On 09/12/2015 04:35:21, Josh said:

From a Catholics Facebook page : 

1st comment : I wish he'd devour the pope.

Reply : Why bother? He's already inside.

 

I'm more offended by Catholics that say things like this than I am the projection.

 

 

 

 

 

[PhuturePriest]

 

12 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

 

I'm more offended by Catholics that say things like this than I am the projection.

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking from experience, people who say stuff like that are never satisfied with the Pope, regardless of who he is and what he does. Their life in the Church is fueled by complaining that this wasn't said right or this wasn't done right. Their self righteousness and anger is fueled by Catholic news websites who make controversies and plant negative narratives in people's minds. That's why Michael Voris made a Vortex condemning not Pope Francis (because he's still Pope and he has a policy against that,) but Pope Emeritus Benedict, accusing him for not being traditional and for faking sickness to abandon his flock to the wolves. You see the logic in that, don't you? We have this horrible Pope because the previous man was even more horrible and abandoned his children out of cowardice, and went so far as faking an illness to do it. The real enemy isn't Pope Francis (though he certainly is one,) but Pope Benedict, the man we all thought was our greatest leader. 

In other words, we've been betrayed and abandoned by a man we trusted.

That creates intrigue. It creates a zealous following. I don't think Michael doing it for that purpose knowingly, but he certainly is doing it.

The large majority of Church news services amass their following by complaining about the Church, whether it's because the Church is not traditional enough or it's not liberal enough. If they didn't complain and invent issues, they wouldn't have a business. It really should disturb us that fellow Catholics have literally made businesses out of inventing issues and blasting the Church and Her clergy. 

Given that, I'm not at all surprised to see such vitriolic hatred for Pope Francis. I'd imagine that person watches Catholic news sites that give him that narrative in the first place. I really feel bad for people like that, because they have been led astray by people they trust. That's the main reason I left my internship in the first place.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

I find it interesting that Catholics who criticize Pope Francis, wish for the days of Pope Pius XII choose to ignore that Pope Pius also made changes that could be considered "liberalizing," such as shortening the long fast. One big difference is that in the days of Pope Pius we didn't have social media to spread these discussions so quickly. 

I might feel differently if the projections had been commercial. But, lions are God's creations, and the purpose was to help keep them from extinction (and most animals who are endangered are in that state because of the actions of humans).

I happen to be a fan of Pope Francis, even though admitting that might add fuel to his detractors. "Look, Pope Francis is so 'liberal' that now even non-Catholics respect him." As a non-Catholic, I'm finding it interesting to watch these arguments between Catholics from the "sidelines." To not give the Pope "the benefit of the doubt" on an issue like projecting animal images on St. Peter's seems very odd to me coming from a Catholic. And, Pope Francis' calls for listening and trying to understand homosexuals and others sounds far too much like the Pharisees criticizing Jesus for not only sharing a meal with prostitutes, but breaking kosher to do so (a HUGE "sin" for Orthodox Jews, even today). I only wish that I could have been a "fly on the wall" during those meals. We know that Jesus did not condone prostitution, but somehow Jesus was still able to be loving and caring--the prostitutes would never have shared a meal with Jesus if they knew that all he was going to do was condemn them--society was doing that anyway. I would love to have heard Jesus' words.  

I have no idea why I'm posting in a thread arguing about the Pope. I must be really bored.

You can respond to this post if you like, but I plan to ignore this thread from now on. I do not have the proper knowledge to engage in a lengthy and intelligent discussion. 

 

[dominicansoul]

I might be wrong about this, but isn't hurting animals a sin?  Isn't abusing an animal something you should mention in confession?  If you kill an animal just for the hell of it, isn't that also a sin??

 

 

[PhuturePriest]

2 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

I might be wrong about this, but isn't hurting animals a sin?  Isn't abusing an animal something you should mention in confession?  If you kill an animal just for the hell of it, isn't that also a sin??

 

 

Yes.

I would wager this also extends to insects, of which people kill in abundance just because. I certainly used to. If a bug was around me I'd kill it, simply because that's what everyone else I knew did as well. Then a few years ago I realized the immorality of that and stopped. 

And now I can't kill a fly without feeling bad about it.

[KnightofChrist]

So and so said on Facebook book yadda yadda yadda

[StMichael]

22 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

Climate change is seen as a big deal by the Pope. It was also seen as a big deal by his predecessor, Benedict XVI. Obviously Pope Francis is more active in his push to try and get people to understand the gravity of what he feels is a very big issue. If you thought the same as him, you would do the same.

I honestly don't see why this is a big issue. There was a light show with animals in the hopes that it would inspire us to fulfill our God-given duty of being good stewards of the earth. Unless he encourages us to worship animals, I really don't see how this isn't just people getting mad at the Pope for not having the same exact social priorities as they do. Protecting the environment is a very big and important issue, just like abortion and the sanctity of marriage. It's not a sin to focus on one rather than the other. Would it be my main priority? No. But I'm not Pope, and I choose to honor our Holy Father by trusting he is doing the best he can through prayerful discernment, and honoring his Office by not publicly or privately griping about him because he doesn't focus on what I would.

I love the Holy Father as I do all his predecessors, and I pray for him daily. I trust you do as well, and I appreciate your great concern for him and Holy Mother Church.

There are many issues that are important, well before we can even discuss controlling the weather (which is akin to controlling the rotation of the earth), like Christian genocide in the middle east, etc. I do not know who authorized this Disney like video show but it is in poor taste. If this was meant to draw attention to this issue, why not have projected the Christians being beheaded or burned alive as they would not renounce Christ to their muslim captors? Why not leverage projections showing those who were not aborted and live as Christ had known them before they were born?

If this petition is true (https://www.lifesitenews.com/petitions/i-oppose-vatican-climate-change-light-show) then whoever organized this is not only in bed with communists, but those seeking to control population growth:

"On December 8, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception as well as the opening of the Extraordinary Jubilee of Mercy, Pope Francis allowed climate-change partisans, including some well-known supporters of population control, to project a light show onto the façade and cupola of Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome — the most important church in the Catholic world — so as to “inspire change around the climate crisis.”"

And how does one control population growth? Exactly.

All the late 19th century/ early 20th century movements are alive and well in 2015.