Guest Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Matthew 10:34 ► "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 he knew people would hate His Gospel so much that they would fight against it with all their might. Sometimes it leads to wars between countries, and sometimes it means wars within your own family. He's merely stating that His Gospel will be the cause of these divisions because there are those who do not accept It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Swords divide. People will turn against each other because they follow Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary: Ver. 34. I came not to send, &c. That is, dissension and war, in order that the false peace of sinners may be destroyed, and that those who follow me, may differ in morals and affections from the followers of this world. The sword, therefore, is the gospel, which separates those parents who remain in infidelity, &c. &c. &c. (Menochius) --- It must be observed, that the gospel does not necessarily of itself produce dissensions amongst men, but that Christ foresaw, from the depravity of man's heart, that dissensions would follow the propagation of the gospel. The blame of this, however, does not attach to the gospel itself, since those who embrace it, after their conversion sought more than ever to keep peace with all men, even with their most bitter persecutors; whilst those who rejected the gospel, forgetting even the ties of kindred, persecuted even to death the followers of Christ. (Haydock) --- Send peace, &c. Indeed before Christ became man, there was no sword upon the earth; that is, the spirit had not to fight with so much violence against the flesh; but when he became man, he shewed us what things were of the flesh, and what of the spirit, and taught us to set these two at variance, by renouncing always those of the flesh, which constantly endeavour to get master over us, and follow the dictates of the spirit. (Origen http://haydock1859.tripod.com/index.html Edited December 5, 2015 by Credo in Deum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 That's one of the least confusing things I think Jesus said. What about when He said that He was lesser than the Father? And that He doesn't know the day but only the Father does? Explain that Phatmassers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 This is where the Islam Apologist confirms that Allah and Jesus aren't equal right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Consider the context too when he says this, as he first sends out the Apostles to heal and cast out devils like him. We think of the Apostles as "the Apostles" but at this point they were still a ragtag group of fishermen, publican, etc. They had no idea what they were getting themselves into. They weren't people who would ever upset the social order, but now they were embarking on a mission. Before they were just following Jesus, but now he was sending them out, and introducing them to a mission that would mean the end of life as they knew it, the life of family and society. Even Jesus had to teach his mother, that those who are his mother are all who hear the word of God and do it. This was not a local breakfast club, it was a new life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 20 hours ago, Ice_nine said: That's one of the least confusing things I think Jesus said. What about when He said that He was lesser than the Father? And that He doesn't know the day but only the Father does? Explain that Phatmassers. Haydock Commentary: Ver. 28. The Father is greater than I.[3] According to the common exposition, Christ here speaks of himself, as made man, which interpretation is drawn from the circumstances of the text, Christ being at that time, going to suffer, and die, and shortly after to rise again, and ascend into heaven, all which agree with him, as man, and according to his human nature. But the Arians can take no advantage from these words, (though with divers of the ancient Fathers, we should allow them to be spoken of Christ, as the Son of God:) the Father may be said in some manner to be greater than the Son, if we consider the order of the divine processions, that is, that the Father is the first person, and proceeds from no other; whereas the Son proceeds from the Father. If any one, says St. Chrysostom, will contend, that the Father is greater, inasmuch as he is the cause, from which the Son proceedeth, we will bear with him, and this way of speaking: provided he grant that the Son is not of a different substance, or nature. St. Athanasius allows the same, and takes notice, that though the Father is said to be greater, yet he is not said to be better, nor more excellent, than the Son; because they are one and the same in substance, nature, and other perfections. (Witham) --- The enemies of the divinity of Christ here triumph, and think they have the confession of Christ himself, that he is less than the Father. But if they would distinguish the two natures of Christ, their arguments would all fall to the ground. Jesus Christ, as man, and a creature, is inferior to his Father, the Creator; but, as God, he is, in every respect, equal to him. (St. Basil, St. Augustine, &c.) --- Others, likewise, answer it thus: Following the confused opinion of the world, and even of the apostles themselves, who as yet only considered Christ as a prophet, and as a man, eminent in virtue and sanctity, he was less than the Father. (St. Chrysostom; Leont.; Theophylactus; Euthymius) --- And likewise the title of Father, (as we generally use the word) is greater, and much more honourable, than that of Son; and in this respect, Christ is inferior to his Father. (St. Athanasius; St. Hilary; St. Epiphanius; St. Gregory of Nazianzus; and St. Cyril) ---But this appellation, though really true, does not destroy the equality of the persons, because Christ has declared, in numerous other places, that he is equal to the Father; that he is in the Father; and that he and the Father are one. The apostles ought to have rejoiced that Christ was going to the Father, who was superior to him, considering him in his human nature; because, then, would the Son shew forth his honour and glory to be equal to the Father's, in heaven. This would have been a mark of a pure, solid, and disinterested love, which ought to have inspired the apostles, if they truly loved their divine Master. (Calmet) --- Protestants assume to themselves the liberty of making the Bible only, the exclusive rule of faith, yet refuse this privilege to others. Thus Luther insisted, that his catechism should be taught, and followed. Calvin burnt Servetus for explaining his faith, by his own interpretation of the Bible, particularly of these words, the Father is greater than I. The Church of England compels every clergyman to swear to the Thirty-nine Articles, and has inflicted the severest penalties on such as interpreted the Bible according to the principles of Socinus; and on Catholics, who understand the words of Jesus Christ,This is my body: this is my blood, in the literal and obvious sense of the words. As long as each individual is at liberty to expound Scripture by the private spirit, it is a great injustice to compel any one, by penal laws, to yield his judgment to any authority, that is not less fallible than his own. Haydock commentary about the day: Ver. 36. No man knoweth ... but the Father alone.The words in St. Mark (xiii. 32.) are still harder:neither the angels, nor the Son, but the Father. The Arians objected this place, to shew that Christ being ignorant of the day of judgment, could not be truly God. By the same words, no one knoweth, but the Father alone, (as they expound them) the Holy Ghost must be excluded from being the true God. In answer to this difficulty, when it is said, but the Father alone, it is certain that the eternal Son and the Holy Ghost could never be ignorant of the day of judgment: because, as they are one and the same God, so they must have one and the same nature, the same substance, wisdom, knowledge, and all absolute perfections. 2. It is also certain that Jesus Christ knew the day of judgment, and all things to come, by a knowledge which he could not but have, because of the union by which his human nature was united to the divine person and nature. See Colossians ii. 3. And so to attribute any ignorance to Christ, was the error of those heretics calledAgnoitai. 3. But though Christ, as a man, knew the day of judgment, yet this knowledge was not due to him as he was man, or because he was man, but he only knew the day of judgment, because he was God as well as man. 4. It is the common answer of the fathers, that Christ here speaks to his disciples, only as he was the ambassador of his Father; and so he is only to know what he is to make known to men. He is said not to know, says St. Augustine[5], what he will not make others know, or what he will not reveal to them. (Witham) --- By this Jesus Christ wished to suppress the curiosity of his disciples. In the same manner after his resurrection, he answered the same question: 'Tis not for you to know the times and the moments, which the Father has placed in his own power. This last clause is added, that the apostles might not be discouraged and think their divine Master esteemed them unworthy of knowing these things. Some Greek manuscripts add nor even the Son, as in Mark xiii. 32. The Son is ignorant of it, not according to his divinity, nor even according to his humanity hypostatically united to his divinity, but according to his humanity, considered as separate from his divinity. (Bible de Vence) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) The pagan families where going to be divided between those who chose to believe and those who did not. Jesus came to give the believer peace but did not come to do nothing he came to disturb the known structures of the time and divide them kind of thing, divide there thinking between the lies they believed and the truth they where being offered, though again peace is granted to the believer sometimes after much or many years of growing pains though and of course that eternal peace in heaven. Edited December 7, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye spelling mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 On 12/6/2015, 8:31:13, Credo in Deum said: Haydock Commentary: I still don't get it. How can one be greater than the other, but still equal? I guess I don't know what the word "great" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 17 hours ago, Ice_nine said: I still don't get it. How can one be greater than the other, but still equal? I guess I don't know what the word "great" means. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal in substance, however, the Father is greater in procession. What this means is that the Father does not proceed from either the Son nor the Holy Spirit, while the Son is begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the the Father and the Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 4 hours ago, Credo in Deum said: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal in substance, however, the Father is greater in procession. What this means is that the Father does not proceed from either the Son nor the Holy Spirit, while the Son is begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the the Father and the Son. In other words, God the Father is the Fountainhead, as the Eastern Church says, of the Holy Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 so would it be right to say the Son is inferior to the Father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) I don't think we really fully understand the basic nature of the Trinity. Tis a mystery to us. It is tough for us to fathom 1 single being that has 3 persons because nothing like that exists here on earth. Right? When you guys say "begotten" and "procession" - can you define these terms? I have heard these but still not quite sure what they mean, or what the difference between them are. I had heard something like this, but I dunno if it is heresy. I think a priest said it though. It was something along the lines of - the second person of the Trinity can be thought of as God's knowledge of himself. But that knowledge is so perfect that it is another person (how that happens I dunno). The same thing with the third person of the Trinity - which is the love that the Father and the Son share between themselves. That love is so perfect that it is another person (again, how that happens I dunno). I think that is why we say that the 3rd person proceeds from the Father and the Son. Is that right? Has anybody ever hear this explanation? Heresy? Edited December 9, 2015 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It sounds like the Priest was trying to explain the theology of Christ as Logos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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