Is Hell Empty?

[Papist]

16 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

LOL.  Struck a nerve?

That is part of points in the parables of the Prodigal Son and the workers doing the harvesting and I think, there is a wedding guest parable as well....     It's human nature.  I'm saying there would be resentment of others getting reward that didn't seem to put in the long term effort.   

Not that I'm saying I'm Jesus or anything. 

If by God's infinite mercy I am able to enter the Kingdom of God, I highly doubt disappointment will come in play.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Papist

[vee]

Christians are not the only religion to have a concept of hell btw.  Since Buddhism, for example, is so varied I cant speak for all of it but of the aspects of it in certain cultures that I am familiar with there is a Buddhist hell. 

 

see

[dominicansoul]

vee, we can't even agree on Christian hell and you bring up Buddhism hell?
 

[Selah]

It looks more colorful.

I would go into the Eastern Orthodox view on all this, but my cat's on my lap I need to get ready for work.

[Anomaly]

3 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

Just follow the same advice you love to dish out so much to others, that's all I'm saying.

And which advice is that?

[Ash Wednesday]

50 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

And which advice is that?

Taking into consideration the things we post for the sake of others and the phorum at large. Your original post in this thread, intentional or not, really did come across as being pretty condescending -- and furthermore mocking people for taking offense isn't all that considerate, either. I expect at this point that you likely won't agree, or see it the same way, but I've said my peace on the matter.

[Ark]

Eternal punishment? Isn't justice quenched at some point?

[MarysLittleFlower]

On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎4‎:‎14‎:‎40‎, NadaTeTurbe said:

Yes, I agree with you ! But sometimes people refused God's mercy and His love. Like you say, if a person with the worst crimes repents with enough contrition, they would be saved. But some people never repent, you see ? The father I spoke about - he never repented, he joked about it with his wife, etc... Of course, I don't want people to be in hell, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. It makes me very sad that some people never repent, and then go to hell. I wish I was one of those catholic who speak with criminals and try to convert them but I am not brave enough, I just can pray and even this it's hard. 

It would be really hard for me too I'm sure.. I think yes sometimes souls reject God's mercy. I think God would want for them to repent but for some reason particular souls just don't. It's sad of course of course though without repentance we can't be saved.

23 hours ago, Anomaly said:

Yes, seriously.   The disappointment would be that justice wasnt served because heaven is so hard to get into.   What's mocking about that?

I don't agree... we don't want anyone in hell

Also I deserve hell so if I avoid it I'll just be happy and glorify God's Mercy, so why not glorify God's Mercy for others too? Yes there's the parable - and maybe on earth we can have a temptation like that, but since in Heaven there is perfect charity and no sin, I think people wouldn't think that way there? even if they did on earth. But many Christians don't think like that on earth I think because we're aware of our own sins, we have to confess them to a priest, it's difficult do that and God's forgiveness isn't something we "deserve". It's not mercy if we deserve it.

Edited December 4, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Credo in Deum]

On 12/3/2015, 7:30:18, Ark said:

Eternal punishment? Isn't justice quenched at some point?

When someone rejects Eternal Goodness, God, how could the consequence of such an action be temporal?

[PhuturePriest]

The article I like best on this subject is by my childhood hero Tim Staples: http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/are-there-souls-in-hell-right-now

Here is the abridged version:

It has become fashionable in some Catholic quarters these days to question where there are now or will ever be any souls populating hell. Hell, it is taught, is a "real possibility," but whether there are any souls actually there, or whether there will ever be any souls there, is unknown to us.

It is, of course, true that hell is a "real possibility" for each of us. And that is a sobering thought. But it is also true that souls are actually in hell now, and will be for all eternity. This is a teaching of our Catholic Faith.

1. The First Constitution of the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 at the very least alludes to the fact that folks then living in AD 1215 would be in hell...

...He will come at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, to render to every person according to his works, both to the reprobate and to the elect. All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, (Latin text reads quae nunc gestant—which they are now bearing or wearing) so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad; for the latter perpetual punishment with the devil, for the former eternal glory with Christ.

The present tense indicates that some folks then living—now wearing their bodies—would go to hell. Thus, the Church is here teaching there are souls “in” hell.

 Pope John Paul II, in his book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, provides:

Can God, who has loved man so much, permit the man who rejects Him to be condemned to eternal torment? And yet, the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew's Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46). Who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement…” (pg. 185)

Thus, it seems the Church's Magisterium has, in fact, taught that there are souls in hell now, and that there will be for all eternity.

Neither is there anything in the Church's prayer for all souls that necessitates a doctrinal stand of the Church that says we “must” hold out hope that we will discover “hell” empty in the afterlife. In fact, that would contradict both the words of our Lord I cited above and the teaching of the Church in CCC 1034:

Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather… all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire” (Matt. 25:41)!

Notice, the Church declares that "Jesus solemnly proclaims" and "pronounce" that some will indeed be lost.

The teaching of the Church is clear. CCC 1034 teaches us that Jesus "solemnly proclaim[ed]" that Christ will, in fact, "pronounce the condemnation: 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!'" And the Church can do nothing but repeat her Lord's solemn words.

 

Sorry for the weird strikethrough at the end. I couldn't fix it.

Edited December 6, 2015 by PhuturePriest

[Benedictus]

On 03/12/2015, 17:44:43, vee said:

Christians are not the only religion to have a concept of hell btw.  Since Buddhism, for example, is so varied I cant speak for all of it but of the aspects of it in certain cultures that I am familiar with there is a Buddhist hell. 

 

see

Buddhists believe that these are created by states of mind, cycle after cycle. The Hell is rebirth itself over and over, simply for not liberating oneself. Any particular cycle may well be more hellish than another. But people have the control, cause and effect, and have to free themselves. But they have the hope of liberation eventually, regardless of what a person appears to be or do in any one partciular life.

[Benedictus]

I highly doubt that Hell is empty. I think there'd need to be a place for people who'd refuse to be with God (freedom of will) or simply aren't suited or ready for intense communion, for whatever reason (Justice and Mercy). Hell may well be a state or place that will exist for eternity, and it may well be possible souls stay there for eternity too (even if it's purely their own inclinations that keep them there).

However, I've never really thought it helpful to think about people who could be in Hell. I think to do so would show some sort of defect in myself that needed addressing, and I still think that. It's only God who knows true minds and hearts. Only he can judge people fairly to know what factors were at play in that person and what led them to where they were. I think it's better to focus on dealing with our own faults and building stronger communion with God. Simply pray for everyone else, and help them if we can.

I do feel sorry for people who have been fairly hellish and wicked, as they must have been very broken or had a large amount of suffering or ignorance within them to do whatever they've done. It doesn't excuse people, as they have to be responsbile for their actions, but I think compassion can tame the anger somewhat. Justice is somewhere in the middle of that balance, at least to me.

I think the impulse to desire punishment is a very human one, and understandable. It has a place. But giving space for reconciliation, amends, diaologue and change are far more positive (although often very difficult). I've read of some deeply tranformative cases of reconcilation happen between victims and those who've harmed them, in the most deeply tragic and violent ways, and they've found a space to deal with it together. I think if we can do it at our best then it's also there for God. We're the problem, which has always been the case

[Credo in Deum]

Hell isnt empty. I went to the DOL last tuesday and there were lots of people there.