"For That Moment Become An Atheist"

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Peace said:

Every so-called atheist knows that God exists anyway. They reject God, and standing behind these "lack of evidence" arguments is just a pretense to mask the fact that they reject God. I think it is kind of a cowardly rebellion.

I'm friends with a lot of agnostic/atheist. Most of them genuinely don't believe in God. You speak pretty boldly when you use the word "every". It's not like it's 100 percent obvious God exist. On my worst day I'm agnostic at moments.

[Peace]

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

LOL, wut?  A bold statement, though you couldn't be more wrong. You may think you have some insight into an atheist's mindset when it comes to (any) religious claims but you actually really don't.

Please. You know plenty well that God exists. Even a complete idiot knows that God exists. The reason why you are an atheist is for other reasons. What are they?

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Of course I reject something I see no evidence for.

 No. there is plenty of evidence. You refuse to acknowledge it because you reject God.

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

If I claimed that there was an invisible dragon in my garage, would you accept it?  

No.

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Ever heard of misotheism? Misotheists and atheists are different creatures and I think you may be confusing the two on some level. Misotheists still believe in a god but hate and reject the concept whereas for atheists, it's just...a concept. There's nothing there other than a concept. How can you hate or rebel against something that doesn't exist for you? 

Have you ever been in a relationship? Do you know what the silent treatment is? You pretend that the other person does not exist in order to attempt to harm him or her. That is what atheists are. They pretend or try to trick themselves into believing that God does not exist because they reject His love and authority.

14 hours ago, xSilverPhinx said:

I don't see how someone rejecting all gods would be cowardly, though, care to elaborate? 

Because you know that God exists. Satan and the other fallen angels explicitly rebelled against God. Although they were fools, at least they were man enough to admit what they were doing, and the choice that they made. You on the other hand, try to delude yourself into believing that you not are rebelling against God, by pretending that He does not exist. Because you are not man enough to face up to your own choices. Perhaps it is a form of passive-aggressive behavior?

Whatever the case may be, you definitely need to get your mind right.

Peace

[Era Might]

5 minutes ago, Peace said:

Please. You know plenty well that God exists. Even a complete idiot knows that God exists. The reason why you are an atheist is for other reasons. What are they?

 No. there is plenty of evidence. You refuse to acknowledge it because you reject God.

No.

Have you ever been in a relationship? Do you know what the silent treatment is? You pretend that the other person does not exist in order to attempt to harm him or her. That is what atheists are. They pretend or try to trick themselves into believing that God does not exist because they reject His love and authority.

Because you know that God exists. Satan and the other fallen angels explicitly rebelled against God. Although they were fools, at least they were man enough to admit what they were doing, and the choice that they made. You on the other hand, try to delude yourself into believing that you not are rebelling against God, by pretending that He does not exist. Because you are not man enough to face up to your own choices. Perhaps it is a form of passive-aggressive behavior?

Whatever the case may be, you definitely need to get your mind right.

Peace

I think the last few Popes have more respect for atheists AND atheisn than you do. To say that atheism is passive-aggressive silent treatment is about the same as saying religion is just the opiate of the masses. It fails to take seriously the inner life of man which is not synomous with psychology or religion. Satan was not man enough for anything, because he wasn't a man at all, and did not have the inner, bodily life of man.

[Peace]

10 hours ago, Josh said:

I'm friends with a lot of agnostic/atheist. Most of them genuinely don't believe in God. You speak pretty boldly when you use the word "every". It's not like it's 100 percent obvious God exist. On my worst day I'm agnostic at moments.

Sorry. I have atheist friends too. I don't believe that they genuinely don't believe in God. I believe that they are either liars or have just tricked themselves into believing a lie (like people who train themselves to pass lie-detector tests). The natural inclination of man is to believe in God. You need to have your mind twisted to reach any other conclusion.

I doubt from time to time like everyone else. Those doubts come from Satan and should be rejected. It is what it is.

I am a former atheist by the way - for over 5 years.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Peace said:

Sorry. I have atheist friends too. I don't believe that they genuinely don't believe in God. I believe that they are either liars or have just tricked themselves into believing a lie (like people who train themselves to pass lie-detector tests). The natural inclination of man is to believe in God. You need to have your mind twisted to reach any other conclusion.

I doubt from time to time like everyone else. Those doubts come from Satan and should be rejected. It is what it is.

I am a former atheist by the way - for over 5 years.

Well I know sincere agnostics. I'm not friends with militant atheist. This world is pretty evil. I can see someone being genuinely agnostic. Although if they search for God I'm confident He will reveal Himself. He did to me 12 years ago. It took seeking Him out 100 percent though. As far as sincere atheist I know some. They aren't militant in my interaction with them but they don't believe in God. Further they have problems with the Christian God and how He's presented. They hate Christian/Religious Fundamentalism. As do I.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Guest

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Era Might said:

I think the last few Popes have more respect for atheists AND atheisn than you do. To say that atheism is passive-aggressive silent treatment is about the same as saying religion is just the opiate of the masses.

Why should I respect something that is incorrect (if not idiotic) and a grave sin? A person may believe whatever he wants, of course, but if you respect a view that God does not exist, is there anything that you do not respect?

And atheism is the opiate of the masses, not religion. You haven't noticed that?

Quote

 

It fails to take seriously the inner life of man which is not synomous with psychology or religion. Satan was not man enough for anything, because he wasn't a man at all, and did not have the inner, bodily life of man.

 

Not exactly sure what you mean. Can you explain further?

Edited December 3, 2015 by Peace

[Era Might]

29 minutes ago, Peace said:

Why should I respect something that is incorrect (if not idiotic) and a grave sin? A person may believe whatever he wants, of course, but if you respect a view that God does not exist, is there anything that you do not respect?

And atheism is the opiate of the masses, not religion. You haven't noticed that?

 

Not exactly sure what you mean. Can you explain further?

I don't respect self-righteousness. Other than that, I don't see Jesus talking about much else. I think you're taking both atheism and religion too literally. I take your beliefs seriously for the same reason I take an atheist's beliefs seriously, not because I agree with you but because beliefs aren't worth much. I read a good essay recently from Joseph Ratzinger about how Matthew 25 reveals the Christian vocation as love measured by our acts, and he rejected those who would soften Matthew 25 by saying "yes, but..." In other words, Christ will judge precisely on our love for neighbor, no more no less, and that is a much higher standard than "correctness" or belief. To say you believe in God doesn't amount to much more than to say you don't believe in God, because neither belief nor unbelief tell us about the man. We are revealed and judged by our love, not our beliefs, and although fidelity to truth flows from love, belief by itself is neither love nor fidelity, and unbelief by itself is neither lack of love nor infidelity. The man in the Gospel cried to Jesus, "I believe, help my unbelief." That is a greater confession of faith than Thomas' "My Lord and my God."

Edited December 3, 2015 by Era Might

[xSilverPhinx]

2 hours ago, Peace said:

Please. You know plenty well that God exists. Even a complete idiot knows that God exists. The reason why you are an atheist is for other reasons. What are they?

 No. there is plenty of evidence. You refuse to acknowledge it because you reject God.

No.

Have you ever been in a relationship? Do you know what the silent treatment is? You pretend that the other person does not exist in order to attempt to harm him or her. That is what atheists are. They pretend or try to trick themselves into believing that God does not exist because they reject His love and authority.

Because you know that God exists. Satan and the other fallen angels explicitly rebelled against God. Although they were fools, at least they were man enough to admit what they were doing, and the choice that they made. You on the other hand, try to delude yourself into believing that you not are rebelling against God, by pretending that He does not exist. Because you are not man enough to face up to your own choices. Perhaps it is a form of passive-aggressive behavior?

Whatever the case may be, you definitely need to get your mind right.

Peace

Are you being serious? You're telling me (an atheist) how I think? Stop for a minute and listen to yourself.  I'm certain that if it were me telling you how you think you would find it laughable. 

It almost seems as if you feel threatened of the fact that atheists exist in the world. 

Once again, I don't know that gods exist, as you're so quick to tell me. I reject the "evidence" for them all because I'm skeptical of all religious claims. Gods to me don't exist, how on earth could I be rebelling against them?

(I rebel against Santa when I don't get a gift I want, just so you know...)  

[Peace]

Era Might - "You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind." You cannot love one that you refuse to acknowledge exists.

And if you truly think that a belief in God or a disbelief in God tells us nothing about the man, then I disagree with you.

[Era Might]

Just now, Peace said:

Era Might - "You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind." You cannot love one that you refuse to acknowledge exists.

And if you truly think that a belief in God or a disbelief in God tells us nothing about the man, then I disagree with you.

I think you can love one you don't believe in. Men do it every day, loving their absent fathers in their rages, hatreds, and self-destruction.

The poet Charles Bukowski wrote one time, some people never go crazy, what horrible lives they must lead. Some people believe in God the way they believe in sin...through reading about it. It's hard to find a real sinner or a real saint, that is, a real believer or unbeliever.

[Peace]

Just now, xSilverPhinx said:

Are you being serious? You're telling me (an atheist) how I think? Stop for a minute and listen to yourself.  I'm certain that if it were me telling you how you think you would find it laughable. 

It almost seems as if you feel threatened of the fact that atheists exist in the world. 

Once again, I don't know that gods exist, as you're so quick to tell me. I reject the "evidence" for them all because I'm skeptical of all religious claims. Gods to me don't exist, how on earth could I be rebelling against them?

(I rebel against Santa when I don't get a gift I want, just so you know...)  

Oh. A Santa joke. How original. Ha ha.

I do not know how you think with 100% certainty, of course. I am not a mind reader. But I believe with a strong certainty that you know that God exists. Stop lying to yourself.

Peace

[xSilverPhinx]

Just now, Peace said:

Oh. A Santa joke. How original. Ha ha.

I do not know how you think with 100% certainty, of course. I am not a mind reader. But I believe with a strong certainty that you know that God exists. Stop lying to yourself.

Peace

The Santa joke is a good analogy. If you actually had better insight into the atheistic mindset you would get that. 

Oh, you believe you know what's going on inside my mind. That means everything, doesn't it? 

You're telling me how I think and I find it ridiculous. This conversation is pointless.

You're wrong about what goes on in my mind, however.Thanks anyways for the chuckle-inducing comments.

(and don't feel so threatened by atheists) 

[Peace]

1 hour ago, xSilverPhinx said:

The Santa joke is a good analogy. If you actually had better insight into the atheistic mindset you would get that. 

Oh, you believe you know what's going on inside my mind. That means everything, doesn't it? 

You're telling me how I think and I find it ridiculous. This conversation is pointless.

You're wrong about what goes on in my mind, however.Thanks anyways for the chuckle-inducing comments.

(and don't feel so threatened by atheists) 

What would there be for me to be threatened of exactly? You tell me.

And also tell me how you find yourself here posting on a Catholic website. Just here for the scintillating conversation are you?

The Santa analogy is stupid. Santa is said to live at the North Pole. God existed before the universe was even created.

But there is hope for you.

Peace

[xSilverPhinx]

2 hours ago, Peace said:

What would there be for me to be threatened of exactly? You tell me.

Plenty of believers I bump into are threatened by the existence of people with differing worldviews. Why? I don't know. Could be for a variety of reasons. Your weird stereotyping of atheists just reminds me of them. There is a pattern here. 

2 hours ago, Peace said:

And also tell me how you find yourself here posting on a Catholic website. Just here for the scintillating conversation are you?

Well, funny story really. A long, long time ago, some of the posters here decided to troll the main atheist forum I visit. I decided to come here to see what these people were all about and ended up staying because I'm fascinated by the way all sorts of faithful people and believers tick. But it takes actually listening to what people say, not just talking at each other, which is what we've been doing.    

2 hours ago, Peace said:

The Santa analogy is stupid. Santa is said to live at the North Pole. God existed before the universe was even created.

Well, you miss the point again.  To an atheist neither exists.

Let me help you: "I believe with a strong certainty that you know that Santa exists. Stop lying to yourself."

I also believe that you know that Santa exists and that you're just lying to yourself.  You're rebelling against Santa and it makes me sad (and angry?) because he gives you all these nice gifts every year and yet you don't acknowledge him. You're in a relationship with Santa and it's as if you're giving him the silent treatment. You're a fool for doing so. 

If you think what I've just said is ridiculous then just stop and think for a minute...

2 hours ago, Peace said:

But there is hope for you.

 

Hope that what will happen? That I'll convert? I'm not looking to be converted... 

Edited December 4, 2015 by xSilverPhinx
typo

[Peace]

49 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Plenty of believers I bump into are threatened by the existence of people with differing worldviews. Why? I don't know. Could be for a variety of reasons. Your weird stereotyping of atheists just reminds me of them. There is a pattern here. 

 I am honestly more sorry for you than I am threatened by you.

49 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Well, funny story really. A long, long time ago, some of the posters here decided to troll the main atheist forum I visit. I decided to come here to see what these people were all about and ended up staying because I'm fascinated by the way all sorts of faithful people and believers tick. But it takes actually listening to what people say, not just talking at each other, which is what we've been doing.

I don't think we have been talking past each other. You say that you honestly believe that God does not exist. I say that you are a liar. We disagree. I hear what you say perfectly fine.

And I think you are here because you want to know God, even though you refuse to admit that to yourself. Do me a favor tonight. Put aside your ego for a moment, sit down in front of a mirror and take a hard look at yourself. Search your feelings, as the Jedi say. Do you not really want to know God?

49 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

   

Well, you miss the point again.  To an atheist neither exists.

Fair enough. You assert that God and Santa are similar in that you do not believe that either exits.

But of course, with respect to Santa I take you at your word. With respect to God I believe that you are a liar.

49 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

Let me help you: "I believe with a strong certainty that you know that Santa exists. Stop lying to yourself."

I also believe that you know that Santa exists and that you're just lying to yourself.  You're rebelling against Santa and it makes me sad (and angry?) because he gives you all these nice gifts every year and yet you don't acknowledge him. You're in a relationship with Santa and it's as if you're giving him the silent treatment. You're a fool for doing so. 

If you think what I've just said is ridiculous then just stop and think for a minute...

What you wrote is ridiculous. But I do not see how that is relevant to what we have been discussing. Santa and God are not analogous. Santa does not exist and cannot make himself known to you. God does exist and has made himself known to you. In fact, God loves you much more so than anyone on Earth. You just refuse to acknowledge that.

49 minutes ago, xSilverPhinx said:

 

Hope that what will happen? That I'll convert? I'm not looking to be converted... 

Yes. I hope that you will convert. That would be for your own good. That sense of purpose or meaning that you lack, that restless longing in your heart, or that sense of inner peace that you lack, is something that only can be found with a relationship with your creator. I hope that you are able to get past whatever issues with God you may have, choose to have faith in Him, and have those things.

But let me ask you a few questions:

1) Although I believe that you are lying, for the sake of argument let's say that you honestly believe that God does not exist, and would only believe it if presented with sufficient evidence. What evidence would be sufficient for you to believe in God?

2) Following under the same assumptions, let's say that that evidence was presented to you, and you came to an honest belief that the Christian God was real. In this case, how would you feel? Would you submit to his authority? Would you be angry that you could no longer live life the way that you wanted to, without consequence? Would you be upset that you are no longer the boss of your own life? Or would you repent of your sins, ask for forgiveness, and choose to follow Him?