MarysLittleFlower Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I have two questions.. I know it might vary by community but please share what it's like for communities that you're aware of 1. Are extern Sisters special types of Sisters in the community, or are they just like other Sisters, with the same vows, but being an extern is like their 'job'? Can someone be assigned to be an extern Sister for a time and then be assigned to do something else? 2. Regarding the MOST cloistered communities.. how do they go to visit the doctor and dentist? are there any other occasions for which they might be granted permission to leave the monastery? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Im waiting for Sr Mary Catharine to answer this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherineH Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Question 2: it is my understanding that they are permitted to leave the cloister for health-related reasons, to visit a doctor's office or go to the hospital if need be. I've heard of some cloistered sisters being able to leave for funerals of family members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (when in doubt ask a Dominican) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graciela Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I only know about Discalced Carmelite communities. In the past, traditional OCD monasteries had doctors and dentists who came to the monastery. One prioress told me they even had an old dental chair! Those days are long gone for most monasteries, and I think even communities under the 1990 Constitutions must go out to the doctor or dentist but not for much else. Even if they do not have extern sisters, they may have OCDS or other community friends who help with shopping and the like (Traverse City Carmel told me this). Communities without lay sisters lock their chapel and then sisters go out to clean the public areas or prepare for Mass without encountering visitors. Some of the 1991 Constitutions communities have sisters who go out to do the shopping and necessary errands, which may be something that is a rotated assignment amongst the sisters able/willing to do that role. Extern sisters do not make solemn vows which I believe must include papal cloister, rather they make perpetual simple vows. Solemn versus perpetual vows seems like not a very big deal to me, but I think it might be a meaningful difference to some. One site that I read said that extern sisters have their own statutes to order their life, and I am not sure that they join the community for the Divine Office (my impression is that they are not required to do so). I think they join the community for meals and recreation, but I have seen externs assist at Mass in the public chapel. Here are two sites with some details. Loretto is a 1991 Carmel in PA; Christ Church Carmel is in New Zealand http://lorettocarmel.org/content/extern-sisters-guardians-enclosure http://www.christchurchcarmel.org.nz/Extern.html As always, so much of the detail depends on the community. Happy Advent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) 3 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said: I have two questions.. I know it might vary by community but please share what it's like for communities that you're aware of 1. Are extern Sisters special types of Sisters in the community, or are they just like other Sisters, with the same vows, but being an extern is like their 'job'? Can someone be assigned to be an extern Sister for a time and then be assigned to do something else? 2. Regarding the MOST cloistered communities.. how do they go to visit the doctor and dentist? are there any other occasions for which they might be granted permission to leave the monastery? thanks! 1. It depends on the community. If someone discerns a vocation to the extern sisterhood (a "call within a call"), she won't take the vow of enclosure. But many communities need an extern, and don't have one, so sisters take turns playing extern, in which case it's like their "job". Some sisters mind this more than others, and so often a community will have the same "extern" sister for years, even though she's not really an extern. She just performs that role in the absence of a sister who discerned extern sisterhood. 2. Typically they go out. In communities with constitutional enclosure, that's not really a problem. In communities with papal enclosure, this is much more serious, but health trumps all, so they still go out. Where a community has the blessing of a doctor who is willing to come to them, they will not go out unless they need a specialist. There are all kinds of other occasions when sisters might leave the monastery, but again, it depends on the type of enclosure and the particular community. It should be noted: Whether there are (non-cloistered) members of the surrounding community willing to bring sisters groceries and whatnot makes a big difference in the degree of enclosure they're able to maintain. Sisters are very practical. They won't maintain their enclosure if it means starving to death. Which should be a lesson to all of us that these communities rely on our cooperation and support to sustain their way of life. Edited December 1, 2015 by Gabriela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 3 hours ago, Gabriela said: It should be noted: Whether there are (non-cloistered) members of the surrounding community willing to bring sisters groceries and whatnot makes a big difference in the degree of enclosure they're able to maintain. Sisters are very practical. They won't maintain their enclosure if it means starving to death. Which should be a lesson to all of us that these communities rely on our cooperation and support to sustain their way of life. amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 On 11/30/2015, 2:12:24, MarysLittleFlower said: I have two questions.. I know it might vary by community but please share what it's like for communities that you're aware of 1. Are extern Sisters special types of Sisters in the community, or are they just like other Sisters, with the same vows, but being an extern is like their 'job'? Can someone be assigned to be an extern Sister for a time and then be assigned to do something else? 2. Regarding the MOST cloistered communities.. how do they go to visit the doctor and dentist? are there any other occasions for which they might be granted permission to leave the monastery? thanks! They do take the same vows. Honestly, I don't know if they can be assigned another job or not. On 11/30/2015, 3:19:34, katherineH said: Question 2: it is my understanding that they are permitted to leave the cloister for health-related reasons, to visit a doctor's office or go to the hospital if need be. I've heard of some cloistered sisters being able to leave for funerals of family members. I understand if it immediately family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Nuns of Carmel of St. Therese in Gilmore, Manila produced a commemorative book that chronicles the foundation of their monastery. They celebrated their Diamond Jubilee last 2001. The title of said book is: Carmel of St. Therese 75 Years 1926 November 24 2001 The following lines are dedicated to their beloved Extern Sisters: Community: Extern Sisters We are a strictly enclosed Community meaning that, except for some justifiable reasons allowed by our Constitutions, we simply stay inside the main building of our Monastery. We don’t even go out and attend Mass inside our very own chapel, but attend Mass in the Choir inside the enclosure! Even for minor ailments not needing hospital care, we rely on our own infirmary and infirmarians. You may therefore wonder how come you see some Carmelite Sisters outside of our enclosure. You may also wonder how in the world we do some necessary temporal affairs like purchasing, running errands here and there, etc. We may profess to live with our sights set on heaven but we are not angels and we still have to live by the rules and trades of the world. Well, for these reasons and more, we do have our Sister-angels! They are called Extern Sisters (while those inside the enclosure can be referred to as the Cloistered Sisters). We are not really different. For all intents and purposes, both the Extern and Cloistered Sisters are Carmelite Sisters, monghas, in the strict and essential meaning of our vocation. The only difference is one of geography: Extern Sisters pay and work outside the enclosure while the Cloistered pray and work inside the enclosure. In a real sense, our Extern Sisters are our eyes and ears. They are our connection with the rhythm of everyday living. They are our lifeline with the goings-on of daily life outside our walls: the horrendous traffic, the skyrocketing prices, the floods, and the hassles and bustles of life. And during our first years, they were literally our breadwinners! For you they are our front-liners, so to speak. They are your more ready access of Sisters to talk with, of Sisters to ask for prayers, of Sisters to unburden your cares on. On 11/30/2015 7:01:40, Graciela said: I only know about Discalced Carmelite communities. In the past, traditional OCD monasteries had doctors and dentists who came to the monastery. One prioress told me they even had an old dental chair! Those days are long gone for most monasteries, and I think even communities under the 1990 Constitutions must go out to the doctor or dentist but not for much else. Even if they do not have extern sisters, they may have OCDS or other community friends who help with shopping and the like (Traverse City Carmel told me this). Communities without lay sisters lock their chapel and then sisters go out to clean the public areas or prepare for Mass without encountering visitors. Some of the 1991 Constitutions communities have sisters who go out to do the shopping and necessary errands, which may be something that is a rotated assignment amongst the sisters able/willing to do that role. Extern sisters do not make solemn vows which I believe must include papal cloister, rather they make perpetual simple vows. Solemn versus perpetual vows seems like not a very big deal to me, but I think it might be a meaningful difference to some. One site that I read said that extern sisters have their own statutes to order their life, and I am not sure that they join the community for the Divine Office (my impression is that they are not required to do so). I think they join the community for meals and recreation, but I have seen externs assist at Mass in the public chapel. Here are two sites with some details. Loretto is a 1991 Carmel in PA; Christ Church Carmel is in New Zealand http://lorettocarmel.org/content/extern-sisters-guardians-enclosure http://www.christchurchcarmel.org.nz/Extern.html As always, so much of the detail depends on the community. Happy Advent! Philippine Carmels has published their own statutes for Extern Sisters and it was even adopted by one American Carmels for their own Externs. Said statutes is needed since the constitutions are more focused on the cloistered life of the Nuns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 How long does it take to become an extern sister , in comparison with a cloistered sister ? I know in some convents in the past , the formation was not as long ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHFamily Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Any more, I believe that the formation time is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisplayNameBlock Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Totally unrelated but I love how six year old zombie threads just get randomly revived like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.jpg.b99b943cd784bc808dbfb774c4c03726.thumb.jpg.66f20b172d4a6cc1e148e2faf5d59cce.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now