Discerning with a new community

[Mary Catherine]

Dear sisters in Christ,

I have been waiting for this community to open for 3 years, and finally God has given me the grace to visit them.

The 7 days staying with them proves to be fantastic, and I really enjoyed myself and found myself so close to God. I can pray well and I found my heart deeply rest in the heart of God.

But something I didn't know is, as a convert to the Catholic Church 5 years ago, I didn't know for newly founded congregation, it would cost them a long time to go stable. Now they are waiting for a 3rd member to join them and they have to prove abundant vocations and support from the Catholic faithful before they could receive the habit from the bishop.

Frankly, I feel a bit confounded. But I truly love their charism and their life, seems very suitable for me. But anyway, I am going to visit my spiritual director next Sunday to ask for his advice.

So, on this forum, I would like to ask, if any one of you have the courage to join such kind of congregation? 

I think I can post more details about them if I get permission from the founding sisters.

[inperpetuity]

Hi Mary Catherine, this reminds me of the early days when I considered joining the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal when they were only 2 sisters and a postulant.  It was helpful because they had the stability of the friars for support.  I don't know what the situation of your community is, but keep praying and talking to your spiritual director and trust God to lead you.  I would do it again if I found the right situation and I believed God was leading me there.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

2 hours ago, Mary Catherine said:

Dear sisters in Christ,

I have been waiting for this community to open for 3 years, and finally God has given me the grace to visit them.

The 7 days staying with them proves to be fantastic, and I really enjoyed myself and found myself so close to God. I can pray well and I found my heart deeply rest in the heart of God.

But something I didn't know is, as a convert to the Catholic Church 5 years ago, I didn't know for newly founded congregation, it would cost them a long time to go stable. Now they are waiting for a 3rd member to join them and they have to prove abundant vocations and support from the Catholic faithful before they could receive the habit from the bishop.

Frankly, I feel a bit confounded. But I truly love their charism and their life, seems very suitable for me. But anyway, I am going to visit my spiritual director next Sunday to ask for his advice.

So, on this forum, I would like to ask, if any one of you have the courage to join such kind of congregation? 

I think I can post more details about them if I get permission from the founding sisters.

Mary Catherine (what a great name!) really one YOU can answer this question. Joining a new community is a specific grace. It makes sense that they have to show stability in members and financial stability before being able to take the next step. Some bishops let new communities wear a habit right away and I can see the good in that but it can be better to wait.

At this point they are probably only a private or public association of the faithful, not technically religious. If you are attracted to this community and feel God is calling you there, give it a shot but knowing you will be part of the "ground floor" and part of the growth, joys, mistakes, crosses, graces, etc. of a new community. Talk to your spiritual director and then take it from there.

[marigold]

I was involved in the very beginnings of a new community about 18 months ago. It's a wonderful thing, if you have the opportunity, but it takes a certain kind of person. I probably could have done it, but I decided I didn't want to. God is good and doesn't withhold anything from us. Now I am in an established community, but maintain friendly contact with the founders. I would say the only thing to be careful of is feeling like you HAVE to stay in order to please the founders, or to help promote a community that you think has an important charism. How well do you know the other founders at this point? As you become closer to them, you will figure out whether you feel totally at ease, whether you can be honest about how you are doing, whether they might be likely to put pressure on you to do this or that... That goes for every community, not just new ones. But founders are often charismatic people, and always fervent and devout, but they aren't always easy to live with.

Bottom line: keep doing what you're doing... ? It sounds like you really like the community.  

 

[Mary Catherine]

Thanks Inperpetuity and Sr. Mary Catherine ( What a name name, I really to take it as my religious name if I take a vow).

To give you a background for the story: This is a semi-contemplative Benedictine congregation newly established in Sydney. 

The sisters are not officially affiliated with FSSP (Fraternity of St. Peter), but they go to their mass every day. This congregation has been approved by the bishop 3 years ago, and has just started this May.

They pray Monastic Office in Latin (Lauds, Sext, Vesper and Compline, would add Matins for big feast days) and they also do some apostolic work, including teaching children catechism, visiting the sick, sowing & embroidering vestments for the priests, etc. Once they receive their habit, it would be in the traditional form of Benedictine habit.

If you any of you have interest, you are most welcomed to send a private message to me. 

[Spem in alium]

9 hours ago, Mary Catherine said:

Thanks Inperpetuity and Sr. Mary Catherine ( What a name name, I really to take it as my religious name if I take a vow).

To give you a background for the story: This is a semi-contemplative Benedictine congregation newly established in Sydney. 

The sisters are not officially affiliated with FSSP (Fraternity of St. Peter), but they go to their mass every day. This congregation has been approved by the bishop 3 years ago, and has just started this May.

They pray Monastic Office in Latin (Lauds, Sext, Vesper and Compline, would add Matins for big feast days) and they also do some apostolic work, including teaching children catechism, visiting the sick, sowing & embroidering vestments for the priests, etc. Once they receive their habit, it would be in the traditional form of Benedictine habit.

If you any of you have interest, you are most welcomed to send a private message to me. 

You were in Sydney? I live there! I hope you enjoyed our city.  I was at a meeting for consecrated persons last Friday and met two priests from the FSSP. They are lovely! I would simply keep doing what you're doing: pray, maintain contact with them, actively learn more about them by being with them and seeing them at work in everyday life, and don't be afraid to show them who you are also. That, to me, is the best way to discern.  
 

Edited November 29, 2015 by Spem in alium

[Mary Catherine]

49 minutes ago, Spem in alium said:

You were in Sydney? I live there! I hope you enjoyed our city.  I was at a meeting for consecrated persons last Friday and met two priests from the FSSP. They are lovely! I would simply keep doing what you're doing: pray, maintain contact with them, actively learn more about them by being with them and seeing them at work in everyday life, and don't be afraid to show them who you are also. That, to me, is the best way to discern.  
 

Yes, I was in Sydney. FSSP priests are wonderful indeed.

I will ask my spiritual director'so pinions as well.

[chrysostom]

I love Benedictines and I love the FSSP!  It is true Benedictines are about stability...but every Benedictine community started somewhere.  I hope it all works out.

[TheresaThoma]

I think the biggest thing is clarity in their identity. Its ok if they don't have it completely figured out but the core needs to be solid. Someone always has to be the first sister or sisters but it does take some extra graces to be part of a new community. Many prayers for you as you continue to discern.

[Mary Catherine]

12 minutes ago, chrysostom said:

I love Benedictines and I love the FSSP!  It is true Benedictines are about stability...but every Benedictine community started somewhere.  I hope it all works out.

Then, you may consider about joining FSSP or the Benedcines, haha..As far as I know, there is a traditional Benedictine monastery for monks in France.

[NadaTeTurbe]

6 hours ago, Mary Catherine said:

Then, you may consider about joining FSSP or the Benedcines, haha..As far as I know, there is a traditional Benedictine monastery for monks in France.

There's even 4 or 5 TLM benedictine monastery in France. The most well-known is "Le Barroux", who has a women monastery, but tehre's also "Notre Dame de Triors", "Randol", and I know I forgot one... 

Anyway... Prayers for you in your discernement  

[Gabriela]

To answer your question very directly: No, I wouldn't consider it. But that's only because I've had some contact with new communities (and when I say "new", I mean about 50 or 60 years old), and it's never been good. The early years can be very uncertain, with lots of change and turmoil as a community figures out its identity. That would drive me nuts. I couldn't commit to something with such an uncertain future. And my feeling is that a lot of new communities begun since VII have had serious identity crises. They really haven't clearly thought out their "vision".

But then, I also seriously lack trust in God. I'd be afraid. I want certainty. Which is silly, cuz even in an established community, there's no guarantee it'll be in 50 years what it was when you entered. So really, it's just my weakness.

Then on the other hand, in social science there's a fundamental principle that states: "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." And I think that's true for groups as well as individuals. So at least in an established community I'd feel like I had more certainty, even if I didn't in fact. I guess feeling secure is enough for me.  

All that being said, if I felt 100% certain God was calling me to such a community, how could I say no? It really all depends on that.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Gabriela

[NadaTeTurbe]

 I've read a book about "New religious communities in France after VII". It was written in 1995, and the "funny" (or not...) thing is that half of the communities the author is speaking about (he said that "it's the future" "there's many vocations") doesn't exist anymore. In the other half, a lot have lost vocations, or are in an apostolic visitation. BUT these communities had some signs that they were not viable : 

- personality cult around the founder 
- a mix of spirituality (exemple : next to my home, there's a "new" community, who have had one apostolic visitation, and who is : carmelite, orthodox, jewish, contemplative, active, charismatic. It's a lot !), a kind of "supermarket of spirituality" (because, as Gabriela said, of the identity crisis after VII) 
-No discernement of vocations.
- A vision of religious life who was not really catholic, again because of the identity crisis (Here I'm speaking about the "communion of the states of life", i.e when brothers, priest, sisters, and laypeople (including children), live together. It worked in some communities (Chemin Neuf), but a lot failed because of it and people were hurted (my next door community was a "communion of the states of life" until the visitation by the Vatican. They now have been asked to live religious life traditionally.) 

Here, Mary Catherine describe a traditionnalist community, so not something charismatic or "new", and a benedictine spirituality, again, not something new. It's for me two good signs. Of course, the future is unsure, but this community already have two pillars to support them : benedictine spirituality, and the TLM mass/vision of religious life (and I'm telling this even if I'm not at all traditionnalist  )
 

[katherineH]

It might be helpful to talk to people you trust who have had interactions with the community, just to get their input.  How does your priest, bishop feel about them?  Are they well regarded in their diocese?

While reading this thread, I kept thinking of the Franciscans of the Eucharist of Chicago.  They are a new community (less than 10 vocations, began in the late 2000s I believe) yet they are one of the most solid religious communities I've discerned with.  I attribute this to the fact that their founder Fr. Bob had already been a religious priest for many years, and that they are "copying" the spirituality and community life of an existing community (they are basically an extension of the CFRs).  Also, they are responding to an immediate and physical need in Chicago which helps create that strong sense of focus and purpose. So I wouldn't discount discerning with a new community altogether, I think there are important questions to ask though: are they centered around the founder (like a personality cult as someone else suggested?), do they have some kind of plan in place to get settled financially? Are they willing to just let anyone in to get their numbers up or are they committed to discerning whether a person truly has a vocation to their spirituality? How did the founder become inspired to start the community? Was it because they truly received a charism and vision from the Holy Spirit or because they wanted the power of a founder/superior? 

Blessings on your journey!!

[McM RSCJ]

Your post asks if we would have the courage to enter a new community.  My thoughts run instead to two other virtues you might want to consider:  wisdom and prudence.

 

Let me begin by saying I don’t understand why “a semi-contemplative Benedictine community” would be considered a “new” congregation?  Is it a new house of an existing congregation, just getting off the ground in a new location, but with the support (personnel, resources, formation staff, etc) of the Benedictine Order behind it?    If so, then please disregard what follows.  You would be entering an established congregation in a new place accompanied by pioneers from that congregation. 

 

But if you are indeed speaking about a “new congregation,” then I think wisdom and prudence suggest the following considerations.

 

·      You say you they need a “third member” to join them and “abundant vocations” before the bishop gives the final go-ahead and permits the habit.   Those are certainly major provisos. 

 

·         There are only two now?  (And have they been the same two the whole time or a varying two?)  If they would likely look upon you as the necessary “third person,” I would be wary.   Can the three of you honestly discern your vocation and congregational fit when two of you “need” you to remain for the congregation to be approved?

 

·      A Religious I know researched healthy religious communities for her PhD thesis in Sociology.  One finding is that “three” is the hardest number for trying to sustain a healthy community.   So often, with any decision, one person will be the odd-person out. 

 

·      You might want to find out the history of the other two with regard to religious life?  As a Religious for many years, I have seen that some persons who leave one congregation to begin another have unresolved psychological concerns.  (I know, of course, this is not always the case and that sometimes a person receives a call within a call).