Lilllabettt Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 2 hours ago, Norseman82 said: But sixteen times? And reloading for more? And with the advent of dashboard cams, isn't it common sense to say to one's self "If I lie I will get caught eventually"? Right, so your next questions should be: 1. under what conditions would a person shoot another 16 times, and try reloading for more, knowing the entire thing is being video taped? 2. under what conditions would the police decide that lying would be a rational choice, knowing the entire thing was video taped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said: Right, so your next questions should be: 1. under what conditions would a person shoot another 16 times, and try reloading for more, knowing the entire thing is being video taped? 2. under what conditions would the police decide that lying would be a rational choice, knowing the entire thing was video taped? To which my next question would be "What is the leadership doing about these cases?". This is just like the priest sex abuse scandal - people are probably more angry about the coverups than the actual misdeeds being covered up. Edited November 27, 2015 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Norseman82 said: To which my next question would be "What is the leadership doing about these cases?". This is just like the priest sex abuse scandal - people are probably more angry about the coverups than the actual misdeeds being covered up. I can see that the Socratic method isn't working here, so I 'll answer my questions myself 1. under what conditions would a person shoot another 16 times, and try reloading for more, knowing the entire thing is being video taped? Answer: conditions in which a person's mental state leads them to think that response could possibly be appropriate OR the person is mentally cracked and either wants punishment or is trying to throw their life away. 2. Under what conditions would the police decide that lying would be a rational choice, knowing the entire thing was video taped? Answer: conditions in which the protection provided by the wall of silence is too important to risk, even with a 99% chance the truth will out. The police would rather accept the near certainty that they will be caught in a lie rather than risk the wall coming down in the current environment. Another alternative: they don't think the cop deserves what is coming to him, they know that in the current environment there is a 0% chance he will make it out, therefore they will take the 1% chance the lie will work vs the 0% chance he will get a fair hearing in the public square if they tell the truth. Edited November 27, 2015 by Lilllabettt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 As a country we need to have a better understanding of the value and dignity of the human person. I believe that only then we will see murder and violence decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, HisChildForever said: As a country we need to have a better understanding of the value and dignity of the human person. I believe that only then we will see murder and violence decrease. 1. Plan lacks detail 2. US violent crime rate over 36 years. Roe v Wade was in 1973, death penalty was reinstated in 1977. 3. Of course, you may have seen in the NY Times that there is a national spike in the murder rate beginning in the last year: Murder Rates Rising Sharply In Many US Cities What could be causing it? Some people say we don't know and can't really know until its over. Others have an idea. Edited November 28, 2015 by Lilllabettt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 What I said isn't so much a plan as a general statement. I believe in large part morality starts in the home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) 14 hours ago, dominicansoul said: people are just as sick of people making these thugs out to be "sweet little innocent victims" and making law enforcement officers equal to "racist bigots who murder black people in cold blood." And I'm sure you put Trayvon in that "thug" category as well. And George Zimmerman isn't "white" either...But he is.....Sorry to offend you if Zimmerman is one of your personal heros....Anywaysssssss I've had enough phatmass for today (5minutes) Maybe be back tomorrow. Edited November 28, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 19 hours ago, Lilllabettt said: I can see that the Socratic method isn't working here, so I 'll answer my questions myself 1. under what conditions would a person shoot another 16 times, and try reloading for more, knowing the entire thing is being video taped? Answer: conditions in which a person's mental state leads them to think that response could possibly be appropriate OR the person is mentally cracked and either wants punishment or is trying to throw their life away. 2. Under what conditions would the police decide that lying would be a rational choice, knowing the entire thing was video taped? Answer: conditions in which the protection provided by the wall of silence is too important to risk, even with a 99% chance the truth will out. The police would rather accept the near certainty that they will be caught in a lie rather than risk the wall coming down in the current environment. Another alternative: they don't think the cop deserves what is coming to him, they know that in the current environment there is a 0% chance he will make it out, therefore they will take the 1% chance the lie will work vs the 0% chance he will get a fair hearing in the public square if they tell the truth. I think a more accurate answer is "because I can get away with it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 3 hours ago, Norseman82 said: I think a more accurate answer is "because I can get away with it". Wow. So you JUST got done pointing out to everyone how moronically stupid or fantastically insane anyone would have to be to think they could get away with lying about something like this. So your theory is, the cops are moronically stupid and/or fantastically insane. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 16 hours ago, Josh said: And I'm sure you put Trayvon in that "thug" category as well. And George Zimmerman isn't "white" either...But he is.....Sorry to offend you if Zimmerman is one of your personal heros....Anywaysssssss I've had enough phatmass for today (5minutes) Maybe be back tomorrow. You wouldn't know my personal heroes because you don't know me personally. I think you come to conclusions using emotion rather than reason. You and a whole lot of people these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 3 hours ago, Lilllabettt said: Wow. So you JUST got done pointing out to everyone how moronically stupid or fantastically insane anyone would have to be to think they could get away with lying about something like this. So your theory is, the cops are moronically stupid and/or fantastically insane. Got it. Then I'll add a third possibility - brazen arrogance. Like it or not, this has been part of the culture. Were you aware that the only reason that this video was released was because a Cook County judge ordered it released in response to a Freedom of Information request for the video, and that the city fought against its release in court? That until recent years it was illegal to record public police actions, and if someone did their recording device was confiscated (and conveniently "lost" in the system), or they were forced to erase the recording, or they were arrested? And that the police fought attempts to change that law, and that it took a court ruling to say that such a law was unconstitutional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Can we move this to the Debate Table already? It's getting ugly and bordering on personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 14 hours ago, Gabriela said: It's getting ugly and bordering on personal. What are you talking about? That's the fun part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Interesting twist - Catholic CPD chaplain calls officer Van Dyke a hero: http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85311585/ (If you cannot access by clicking on the link, google "Brandt Van Dyke hero"). Something might be hitting the fan soon.... Edited December 16, 2015 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 On 11/26/2015, 4:16:55, Lilllabettt said: This is a dumb statement. Sorry, Catherine, but it is. No it's not. I've had someone much closer than that guy actually slashing at me while I was unarmed. If that guy felt that threatened by someone that far away with a knife when he had a gun then he shouldn't be a cop. That doesn't mean he's evil. Your boyfriend's pov is very interesting. But even if he's the nicest guy in the world who just panicked, he shouldn't be a cop. On 11/27/2015, 11:58:41, Norseman82 said: I have no problem with shooting once or twice just to get him on the ground, since he could have gone on to hurt other people. But 16 times? Even when he was on the ground? And another officer on the scene had to stop him from reloading? And the lies and cover-ups? Come on... Aren't people taught any more that when you lie, you have to invent more lies to cover up that lie, and more to cover up those, and so on until one little fact will cause it to unravel? And as a Chicago taxpayer, my property taxes go to pay out the civil settlements in these police misconduct cases - 46 million dollars in recent years. With the bad financial shape the city and state is in, one would think that someone in city government would see that this cannot go on even if the only motivation is as a "pocketbook issue". Wow. In the almost decade that I have been here I've never propped one of Norseman's posts. And yet I just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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