Chicago Cop Shoots Black Teen 16 Times As He Walks Away

[Guest]

https://youtu.be/05hj2kusRpU

Edited November 25, 2015 by Guest

[CatherineM]

They should have arrested him immediately.  Bad cops make the job hard and dangerous for the good ones.

[CatherineM]

Watching that video made me remember my Dad telling me that you don't hit someone once they're down.  I can't imagine shooting anyone with their back turned (granted it was a quick movement in the video), and certainly not after they're on the ground.  It's pretty stupid to show a knife to a cop, but they can't possibly have felt threatened by it.  I think it is a combination of adrenaline from the chase, anger that someone isn't following their orders, and lack of consequences for previous bad acts.  If a cop does something wrong, and doesn't face a consequence, what incentive is there to follow the rules in the future?  This guy had 18 complaints in his file. 

[Norseman82]

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:10:44, CatherineM said:

Watching that video made me remember my Dad telling me that you don't hit someone once they're down.  I can't imagine shooting anyone with their back turned (granted it was a quick movement in the video), and certainly not after they're on the ground.  It's pretty stupid to show a knife to a cop, but they can't possibly have felt threatened by it.  I think it is a combination of adrenaline from the chase, anger that someone isn't following their orders, and lack of consequences for previous bad acts.  If a cop does something wrong, and doesn't face a consequence, what incentive is there to follow the rules in the future?  This guy had 18 complaints in his file.

 

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 11:07:23, CatherineM said:

They should have arrested him immediately.  Bad cops make the job hard and dangerous for the good ones.

Unfortunately, the union contract they have makes firing them extremely difficult and slow.  However, there are calls by black city council members to change that the next time the union contract is up for negotiation.

Additionally, there is the issue of mayoral politics:

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85153961/

 

 

[Lilllabettt]

my Sweetie worked with this officer, was partnered with him for some time.

Sweetie's impression was that he was a good guy but jaded and burnt out. One thing he remembers him saying is that dash cameras are not to help the police but to jam them up, and the 2nd thing is he didn't ever want to get out of the car. Ironic isn't it. 

According to Sweetie the reason he is getting a murder 1 is because somebody reported that when they were lit up and on the way to the scene he was saying over and over  "I have to shoot this kid, I have to shoot this kid."   They were racing to the scene because dispatch said it was someone with a knife attacking officers in a disabled police vehicle (the guy had slashed the tires.) Sweetie says maybe he was trying to get himself ready to do it if he had to, and what he was saying was "if I have to shoot this kid, I have to shoot this kid." 

Sweetie further remarks that the knife-wielder was within the 21 foot defense zone, and that from the officer's perspective, the distance was closing even though he was not walking directly at them. 

He's not going to contribute to the defense fund the cops have set up - it is probably a bad shooting in his opinion. But he does worry because he can see how in the right circumstances this could happen to him some day.

He rode enough with him to know he is an every day guy, not violent, mean, or power tripping, and if anything this guy wanted to look the other way on too much stuff. Sweetie does not see what is different between himself and this guy. Sweetie does expect he will do time.

 

On 11/25/2015, 1:10:44, CatherineM said:

.  It's pretty stupid to show a knife to a cop, but they can't possibly have felt threatened by it.  

This is a dumb statement. Sorry, Catherine, but it is. 

[CatherineM]

3 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

my Sweetie worked with this officer, was partnered with him for some time.

Sweetie's impression was that he was a good guy but jaded and burnt out. One thing he remembers him saying is that dash cameras are not to help the police but to jam them up, and the 2nd thing is he didn't ever want to get out of the car. Ironic isn't it. 

According to Sweetie the reason he is getting a murder 1 is because somebody reported that when they were lit up and on the way to the scene he was saying over and over  "I have to shoot this kid, I have to shoot this kid."   They were racing to the scene because dispatch said it was someone with a knife attacking officers in a disabled police vehicle (the guy had slashed the tires.) Sweetie says maybe he was trying to get himself ready to do it if he had to, and what he was saying was "if I have to shoot this kid, I have to shoot this kid." 

Sweetie further remarks that the knife-wielder was within the 21 foot defense zone, and that from the officer's perspective, the distance was closing even though he was not walking directly at them. 

He's not going to contribute to the defense fund the cops have set up - it is probably a bad shooting in his opinion. But he does worry because he can see how in the right circumstances this could happen to him some day.

He rode enough with him to know he is an every day guy, not violent, mean, or power tripping, and if anything this guy wanted to look the other way on too much stuff. Sweetie does not see what is different between himself and this guy. Sweetie does expect he will do time.

 

This is a dumb statement. Sorry, Catherine, but it is. 

You're right it was. I was sleep deprived. I'll bet you're right about the burn out part too. Things are lots harder on the street than they were when my grandfather was NYPD. He didn't even have to carry a gun. 

[Guest]

I'm sure your sweetie is a great guy and a great cop. I'm thankful for his service. It's obvious this other cop wasn't. He was a coward and a murderer. And continued blasting the kid when he was already dead on the ground. I understand this is an emotional topic for you but this case is what it is. Some people like George Zimmerman are just racist scum and do evil things. Sad world.

6 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

According to Sweetie the reason he is getting a murder 1 is because somebody reported that when they were lit up and on the way to the scene he was saying over and over  "I have to shoot this kid, I have to shoot this kid."   

 

O I would of guessed it was because he started blasting away at the kid when he wasn't even close and was walking away and then continued to shoot him up when he was lying on the ground.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Guest

[Lilllabettt]

8 hours ago, Josh said:

O I would of guessed it was because he started blasting away at the kid when he wasn't even close and was walking away 

Well I guess you think that because you don't know what you're talking about. Murder one only comes in when there is premeditation.  Here's a Wikipedia on murder charges:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Well I guess you think that because you don't know what you're talking about. Murder one only comes in when there is premeditation.  Here's a Wikipedia on murder charges:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)

Does your boyfriend have to deal with this kind of stuff everyday? Why not be a cop somewhere else?

[Lilllabettt]

Just now, Josh said:

Does your boyfriend have to deal with this kind of stuff everyday? Why not be a cop somewhere else?

 He works the overnight shift on the Southside so he does see things. He sees more violence there than he ever saw in his two tours in Iraq. He is deployed now and it's safer where he is. 

He says there's good people in Englewood etc who call for the police when they are in trouble and they deserve to have someone come and get out of the car and help them.  and if someone has to do it, it might as well be him.  

When he gets worried he does research ways to out.  Yesterday he told me if this happened to him he would join the French foreign legion-because they don't ask questions-although you can only get up to the rank of corporal- but but you can apply for French citizenship after three years. This is nonsense I believe but something he and his buddies do with each other to comfort themselves. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

 He works the overnight shift on the Southside so he does see things. He sees more violence there than he ever saw in his two tours in Iraq. He is deployed now and it's safer where he is. 

He says there's good people in Englewood etc who call for the police when they are in trouble and they deserve to have someone come and get out of the car and help them.  and if someone has to do it, it might as well be him.  

When he gets worried he does research ways to out.  Yesterday he told me if this happened to him he would join the French foreign legion-because they don't ask questions-although you can only get up to the rank of corporal- but but you can apply for French citizenship after three years. This is nonsense I believe but something he and his buddies do with each other to comfort themselves. 

Your boyfriend has my respect as an officer. That he chooses to work in an area that dangerous so he can help THOSE people is admirable. He has my sincere respect. That's why I don't hate cops. I know a good percentage of them are good people protecting and serving. The majority I've met and dealt with have been cool and fair with me. I also grew up as a white kid in the country and Midwest. I live in the city now but I don't go out and and stay out of trouble. There's obviously a problem happening in these black neighborhoods. Even a cop like this has the chance to repent now. Who's more merciful then the Father? I just think these cops should transfer or quit or whatever when it gets to the point they are filled with that much fear/hate and capable of this kind of thing. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by Guest

[Lilllabettt]

Just now, Josh said:

You're boyfriend has my respect as an officer. That he chooses to work in an area that dangerous so he can help people is admirable. He has my sincere respect. That's why I don't hate cops. I know a good percentage of them are good people protecting and serving. The majority I've met and dealt with have been cool and fair with me. I also grew up as a white kid in the country and Midwest. I live in the city now but I don't go out and and stay out of trouble. There's obviously a problem happening in these black neighborhoods. Even a cop like this has the chance to repent now. Who's more merciful then the Father? I just think these cops should transfer or quit or whatever when it gets to the point they are filled with hate and capable of this kind of thing. I also realize their not all guilty all the times. 

There are evil cops out there   but more often it's just regular people who shouldn't be cops or something happens to them and they shouldn't be cops anymore.

One partner my sweetie had WAS crazy and was excited to get in a gunfight. Sweetie  asked for a different partner and told his Sargeant why... Because he always wanted to escalate when Sweetie was trying to de-escalate. 

There are cops who are evil or crazy and they are dangerous to the people and the cops. Is this cop one of those IDK. Did he premeditate?  Did he snap?  Is he mentally competent? Self-destructive death wish? How did he decide to shoot someone 16 times, knowing he was on camera,  knowing that these shootings are under heavy scrutiny. Before I decide he is racist evil or even guilty of murder I want to know what was going on in his mind. 

 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

There are evil cops out there   but more often it's just regular people who shouldn't be cops or something happens to them and they shouldn't be cops anymore.

One partner my sweetie had WAS crazy and was excited to get in a gunfight. Sweetie  asked for a different partner and told his Sargeant why... Because he always wanted to escalate when Sweetie was trying to de-escalate. 

There are cops who are evil or crazy and they are dangerous to the people and the cops. Is this cop one of those IDK. Did he premeditate?  Did he snap?  Is he mentally competent? Self-destructive death wish? How did he decide to shoot someone 16 times, knowing he was on camera,  knowing that these shootings are under heavy scrutiny. Before I decide he is racist evil or even guilty of murder I want to know what was going on in his mind. 

 

I'm with you until you get to the part "or even guilty of murder" That video seems to show a lot of guilt. Then you throw in the fact he was saying he was going to do it before he got there? Sorry but yeah....I don't doubt he was dealing with all kinds of stress and fear and who knows what else. But that doesn't change what happened. I find it really disturbing the department lied about what happened. That's just as a big problem. And people are sick of it. I'm not your boyfriend but I would say screw that department.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Guest

[CatherineM]

I think he wasn't thinking about anything. He was full of adrenaline, probably tired, and just seeing white. It's even possible he was on steroids. Lots of cops have started using them out of fear of getting into a fight and not being able hold their own and losing their weapon. We had an army nurse here arrested a few months ago for supplying not only cops but guys deploying to Afghanistan. They're not doing that out of wanting to win races, but to get an edge to stay alive  

I was thinking about the fact that he was carrying a weapon with 16 rounds in the clip. That's twice what they used to carry. That's a lot of stopping power. The .45 pistol was developed by the Army because of service in the Philippines. The .38 wouldn't stop their guerrilas with one bullet. Carrying 16 rounds makes me wonder what the cops are expecting to meet. I don't know that I could handle the constant ups and downs of stress hormones that come with each call. 

[Lilllabettt]

50 minutes ago, Josh said:

But that doesn't change what happened. I find it really disturbing the department lied about what happened. That's just as a big problem. And people are sick of it. I'm not your boyfriend but I would say screw that department.

The wall of silence is real. It exists. So why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? 

Well ... in these neighborhoods, why do people refuse to testify or cooperate in investigations when there is a thug running loose? 

If someone is using something for protection, like silence, they are not going to give it up and risk having nothing. They will actively resist, and even fight, to keep what is protecting them. 

I have seen this in the trenches with good teachers and tenure. They fight to keep it as if their life depended on it. Even though they  know 1. being good teachers they shouldn't need it 2.it keeps bad teachers, whom they despise, in the profession. So why do they do it? They believe tenure is what is holding back the hoards. On the other side is annihilation.

And frankly, in my 2 years in the profession I changed my mind. Having been on the other side of relentless rash judgment, condemnation, and finger pointing from the public as a teacher, I now believe that good teachers need tenure and a strong union to protect them.

The fact that it is now popular to assume that an officer who fires his weapon has hate or murder in his heart only makes the wall of silence stronger.