CatherineM Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 We're in Calgary this week. We don't have cable at home anymore. We rarely watch tv, except when we're in a hotel. We have been watching a Hoarding: Buried Alive marathon. I find them fascinating. Probably shouldn't but it's like watching a car wreck or something. For my husband, it's like watching a DIY show trying to get suggestions. His mother is a hoarder. Type 5, trash to the ceiling, small pathways everywhere, etc. His dad is 86 and his mom is 79. His dad is on blood thinners and has been dying of a heart condition since the 70's. His mom has schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder. Her knees are bad, and she can't get around anymore. We've tried in the past to get cleaners in, but she just moved the trash around and was abusive to violent with the hired help. They left pretty quickly and refused to return. We've tried calling the senior assistance, the city code enforcement, the fire department, even the police for welfare checks. No one cares. Their landlord doesn't care. They live 6 hours away from us, so we can't just pop over to do an hour of cleaning every day. Plus, my husband doesn't drive and my mother in law has banned me from entering their town let alone entering their house. She has threatened that if I show up, she'll take his dad across the border. So when he goes down, I have to hide at a hotel and he pretends that he came on the bus. She's gotten infirm enough that she can't go downstairs. She wants us to pay $5,000 to have a stair lift installed. We think they need to go to a nursing home. I doubt an installer would be able to put a lift in, and it would be another fire hazard covering part of the stairs. So if these were your parents, what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Pray like hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Been praying for awhile about this one. We've attempted to help, but there really isn't anything we can do. He can't force his mom to get cleaning help anymore than he can force her to take her psychiatric meds. I foresee one of them getting trapped or having to be taken out by ambulance followed by guys in hazmat suits and tv cameras. Kind of gives the idea of death with dignity a new face. Puts me to mind of the end of What's Eating Gilbert Grape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 We've tried calling the senior assistance, the city code enforcement, the fire department, even the police for welfare checks. No one cares. I think the above is highly unlikely. More likely it's not bad enough yet for anyone to legally act against your in law's will. If you file a report, the above city agencies are required to investigate. Keep filing a report, and they will keep coming out, and then as the situation deteriorates it will eventually get bad enough for them to do something about it. Sad, yes, but liberal democracies give wide berth for adults to live as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Don't try to fight a borderline, as you've found it's impossible. Don't pay for the chair lift as it just enables her. Do let her know the only option you're willing to help with is a senior home where they can get close supervision. My mother is bipolar and borderline with similar hygiene/cleaning issues and this is the tactic we have to use with her. It's a waste of time to pick up the house for her because it will be filthy 3 days later. Eventually reality sets in especially when she realizes her behavior isn't getting the emotional attention she thought it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I think the above is highly unlikely. More likely it's not bad enough yet for anyone to legally act against your in law's will. If you file a report, the above city agencies are required to investigate. Keep filing a report, and they will keep coming out, and then as the situation deteriorates it will eventually get bad enough for them to do something about it. Sad, yes, but liberal democracies give wide berth for adults to live as they see fit. Unfortunately, elders are about the lowest man on the totem pole when it comes to social services. Many times elders sucide threats aren't taken seriously. Don't try to fight a borderline, as you've found it's impossible. Don't pay for the chair lift as it just enables her. Do let her know the only option you're willing to help with is a senior home where they can get close supervision. My mother is bipolar and borderline with similar hygiene/cleaning issues and this is the tactic we have to use with her. It's a waste of time to pick up the house for her because it will be filthy 3 days later. Eventually reality sets in especially when she realizes her behavior isn't getting the emotional attention she thought it would. Exactly. You shouldn't have a penny go for a lift chair. It's the most rampant part of enabling that's possible. My only note on all of this is that the sheer weight of hording often can damage a structure. You *could* hire a building inspector and then hand the report over to the landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 You could get them out of the house and then have your husband burn it all down. Move them elsewhere and furnish minimally from Ikea. It'll take another lifetime for them to build back up to that again, and they don't have that kind of time. Alternatively, just get movers in there to take it all away. Tell them they got robbed, you're sorry, you were so wrong: That stuff really was super valuable. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcy15 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 http://www.seniors.gc.ca/eng/pie/eaa/help.shtml While I live in the UK, I would imagine Canada has similar protections in place for vulnerable adults. Here, I would call social services and ask for an assessment of needs. The link above is the closest equivalent I could find. You are a lawyer I believe? The Adult Protection Act would seem to apply in this situation You mention that your mother in law has mental health difficulties - what input is in place for managing that? Would her doctor not be a place to also voice your concerns? Very difficult situation, and you have my best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 http://www.seniors.gc.ca/eng/pie/eaa/help.shtml While I live in the UK, I would imagine Canada has similar protections in place for vulnerable adults. Here, I would call social services and ask for an assessment of needs. The link above is the closest equivalent I could find. You are a lawyer I believe? The Adult Protection Act would seem to apply in this situation You mention that your mother in law has mental health difficulties - what input is in place for managing that? Would her doctor not be a place to also voice your concerns? Very difficult situation, and you have my best wishes. What's your point? She can't burn the house down? Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 You could get them out of the house and then have your husband burn it all down. Move them elsewhere and furnish minimally from Ikea. It'll take another lifetime for them to build back up to that again, and they don't have that kind of time. Alternatively, just get movers in there to take it all away. Tell them they got robbed, you're sorry, you were so wrong: That stuff really was super valuable. Etc. There should be a better idea than felonies. Not only that, fires can damage other homes or property and movers can't move things without owners consent, and may also not deal in moving garbage. If you learn about hoarders, it also won't work to give them a "fresh start". This is a psychological problem and while a lifetime of stuff makes things worse a uncured hoarder will easily gather more items. The only real cure is constant, 100% supervision and control of a hoarder's access to items. At this point in their lives this could only be done at an assisted living center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 What's your point? She can't burn the house down? Sheesh. sorry no, not in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) There should be a better idea than felonies. Not only that, fires can damage other homes or property and movers can't move things without owners consent, and may also not deal in moving garbage. If you learn about hoarders, it also won't work to give them a "fresh start". This is a psychological problem and while a lifetime of stuff makes things worse a uncured hoarder will easily gather more items. The only real cure is constant, 100% supervision and control of a hoarder's access to items. At this point in their lives this could only be done at an assisted living center. The point was to lighten the very serious nature of the thread with a bit of humor. As you were... Edited November 18, 2015 by Gabriela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The point was to lighten the very serious nature of the thread with a bit of humor. As you were... Haha I was wondering if you were for real, not because I think you'd suggest something like that but because I have an almost complete inability to detect sarcasm. However I thought its more probable you were joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 We have made formal complaints with every social agency in the city and province. We have called every private group too from seniors united now to the local schizophrenia society. No help. When we file police reports, they go out and as long as she says they can't come inside and seems competent, they won't intervene. She can seem quite sane when she wants to. This is the woman who convinced Canadian Immigration to investigate me as a terrorist. The mayor's office told us to call the fire department. They told us to call bylaw enforcement. Then we were told to call their landlord. He knows how the house is. He knows if they move out he'll have a mess to clean up and repair to re-rent it. He's getting close to $2000/month from them so no incentive. I'm not actually worried about them. They've lived with it for decades now. Our only real option would be to have them declared incompetent and take over their care. That would be expensive and probably not successful. We've tried to help, even finding a therapist who works with hoarders. My only concern is my husband. He loves his parents and is at that point we all come to where he knows time is getting short and is struggling with it. I think moving them to a nursing home would kill them. It's a non-win situation. In the real world these happen daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Is it possible to just leave it be? Slowly running out of time is hard and I sympathize with your spouse. But if his parents' problem isn't really fixable... Personally I'd just let it be and let time dictate how things will end. Maybe visiting more frequently, if possible, would be comforting for your husband? Anyways, prayers for you all in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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