God Be with France

[Anastasia13]

Where was this when about the same number were killed/injured in Yemen or when 10 times as many were killed in Nigeria from terrorism?

[beatitude]

Where was this when about the same number were killed/injured in Yemen or when 10 times as many were killed in Nigeria from terrorism?

The Yemeni death toll is in the thousands (and that number is deceptively low because it only counts people killed in shootings and bombings, not people who die through starvation or inadequate medical care that is directly caused by the conflict). There is a possibility that I may join a humanitarian team there, and if so, I will no doubt post prayer requests on Phatmass about what I witness.

Phatmass currently has no personal connection to Yemen. It does have one to France, through NadeTeTurbe - and Nada has posted about Lebanon, and invited us to pray for victims of violence of other nationalities. If we had Nigerian or Yemeni members there might be threads about the conflict in those countries. If we did have a Nigeria thread, would you be asking, "Where was this when millions were killed in the DRC, Burundi, Sudan, CAR...?"

I get the basic point: Paris has received a level of solidarity and sympathy that victims in developing countries rarely get. That bothers me. It bothers me that many people in the US and European countries don't know or care about their own governments' active involvement in mass killings through the arms trade, but are horrified by what happened in Paris as though it's something uniquely terrible. There is a place for that conversation, but a thread that is mainly functioning as a liveblog for PM's only active French member isn't it.

[NadaTeTurbe]

Beatitude, is it true that yemenite can't seek asylum in Europe because they can't cross Saoudia Arabia ? 

I understand that people are bothered by the support that go to Paris. I was happy to see that Egypt paid tribute to Lebanon, Russia, and France (on Kheops). When there was the CHarlie shooting, while it was good to see this support, I thought it was "too much" when there was so many death in Nigeria. But it's natural to care most about what is unexpecte and close to you. 
While it was on the frontpage, people were not surprised about the attack in Turquia. Because we know that Turquia is exploding, because we know that Erdogan support terrorism, because we know that Erdogan did it. i was at a pro-kurde protest just after, and while people were sad, nobody was surprised. So there was a "sad but normal" state of mind, you see ? 
But the Paris attack were unexpected, big, and frightening. In Europe, the only terrorist attack that had more death was Madrid in 2004. They also target things that we all love : music, wine, foot. We identify more with young people at a concert than with Kurde protesting Erdogan or with people fighting Nkurunziza. There's also the modus operandi who is frightening. And for us french, we are afraid that the facist of the National Front will gain voices at the next election. 

[Gabriela]

There is also the fact that I'm the one who started this thread, and I don't watch any news at all except when I'm at the gym. So if Fox or MSNBC doesn't mention it, I don't know about it.

Unless it's on Phatmass.

I confess that, watching the outpouring for France reminds me of what people say about the Holocaust, that it's horrible to us because the images are of white, middle-class people being treated like cattle (and worse). We don't have the same visceral reaction to brown people being treated that way, because there's something in us that says "that's normal, that's what their societies are like". It's awful, but we have to recognize that we are, at least partly, shaped by the media we see.

Even so, I agree with beatitude that this isn't the place to cover this. This thread is about Paris. I would applaud anyone who chooses to open a thread about the other tragedies that are ongoing. I simply don't know enough about them to do that myself. That's a lifestyle choice I make, to maintain my sanity.

[NadaTeTurbe]

Maybe we can open a thread about actuality, were members can share interesting articles and debate ? I read a lot of foreign newspapers on the net (especially about the African continent, since they are a lot of young, interesting, objective, magazine writted by young african journalist), and I would be happy to provide links. 

[Anastasia13]

I have sat through two moments of silence and saw a lightup billboard for France while I was travelling (can't say I recall seeing one like that (as a sign signal of solidarity or sympathy with terrorist victims before)) as well as some of the only FB fiddlers I can recall ever seeing this weekend. I have been trying to work through my thoughts and feelings about this vs other things and what is ok to think or feel as I do about what I observed. It was no a statement about phatmass involvement. I apologize for having spoken out of place. It was the middle of the night, and I did not pay as much attention to the middle of the thread. Please forgive me. I do not mean to take away from what NadaTeTurbe or anyone in France has experienced or has to say.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Anastasia (L&T)

[dominicansoul]

Where was this when about the same number were killed/injured in Yemen or when 10 times as many were killed in Nigeria from terrorism?

Anastasia, i tend to agree with you, but here's a blog post that addresses this...(found on phatmass' home page.)

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2015/11/16/the-media-shouldnt-apologise-for-giving-the-paris-attacks-blanket-coverage/

Suddenly evoking Islamist atrocities in the Middle East has become rather trendy, which is of no use at all to the thousands who have already been butchered

Of the many responses on social media to the appalling terrorist attacks that took place in Paris on Friday night, one of the most regurgitated, not to mention tedious, is the complaint that the blanket coverage of events in the French capital far out ways reports of similar atrocities in Middle Eastern countries."

[beatitude]

Beatitude, is it true that yemenite can't seek asylum in Europe because they can't cross Saoudia Arabia ? 

Currently the main destinations for Yemeni refugees are Saudi Arabia itself and countries in the Horn of Africa. Djibouti, Somaliland, and Puntland are the top three - people are risking their lives in boats to go there and paying what money they have left to the people-smugglers, and it's a sign of how awful things are in Yemen that they are doing this just to get to three other risky places. According to UNICEF figures, on average 250 Yemeni children die every single day from conflict-exacerbated malnutrition. Diarrhoea caused by impure water (also conflict-related - the water infrastructure has been hit hard) is another leading cause of death, accounting for roughly 11% of deaths among Yemeni children. And this is before we even get to the toll from the bombing and shelling.

There are 1.5 million people who have been internally displaced and are in refugee camps in Yemen itself or temporary accommodation. Crossing Saudi Arabia would be very hard for a refugee as it's a long journey, public transport is poor, and it would be extremely difficult to make it across the country and over the border to Jordan without papers. Even crossing the Saudi border itself is getting harder: a few weeks ago there were reports of thousands of refugees being held there without food or water, and they have sometimes been attacked by border guards. So while a trickle of refugees may make it to Europe, it would be difficult for them and require resources most of them haven't got.

[ruso]

Here the facts of each leader

 

[Gabriela]

Maybe we can open a thread about actuality, were members can share interesting articles and debate ? I read a lot of foreign newspapers on the net (especially about the African continent, since they are a lot of young, interesting, objective, magazine writted by young african journalist), and I would be happy to provide links. 

Go for it, Nada.

[ruso]

And Obama is doing well to achieve peace, as he can not attack Syria, Yemen attack, all to help the Saudis, who support Al Qaeda and ISIS.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/16/us-saudi-usa-arms-idUSKCN0T51NC20151116

Edited November 16, 2015 by ruso

[Spem in alium]

I do agree with the points made above about the level of coverage. Here at least, almost all the news broadcasts have been "special reports" about Paris, simply repeating the same information over and over, and they even advertised a segment about terrorism which looked like it was its own TV show. This approach, combined with the language used by the reporters, seems to do nothing but create fear. 

I'm not sure if you can watch this, but I found this video last night and thought it was quite powerful:

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/waleed-aly-hits-out-at-isis-over-paris-attacks-calls-them-weak/story-fn948wjf-1227611388541

NadaTeTurbe, I will look around for some prayers. I believe we may have them. I am not sure about the funeral for our associate - most likely my Sisters in Paris will be made aware of it.

[Gabriela]

I do agree with the points made above about the level of coverage. Here at least, almost all the news broadcasts have been "special reports" about Paris, simply repeating the same information over and over, and they even advertised a segment about terrorism which looked like it was its own TV show. This approach, combined with the language used by the reporters, seems to do nothing but create fear. 

I'm not sure if you can watch this, but I found this video last night and thought it was quite powerful:

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/waleed-aly-hits-out-at-isis-over-paris-attacks-calls-them-weak/story-fn948wjf-1227611388541

NadaTeTurbe, I will look around for some prayers. I believe we may have them. I am not sure about the funeral for our associate - most likely my Sisters in Paris will be made aware of it.

I think that was a good video, and I'd like to believe it. But given how radical Islamists hide as secular Muslims, I'm not really sure how the West can handle the threat of violence effectively without taking some kind of drastic action against the whole Muslim community. I don't think that collaborating with the Muslim community will help, either, because often the moderates have no idea who's militant among them.

If anyone else has other ideas for how we can put an end to the violence, I'd really like to hear it. But maybe this is a better topic for the Debate Table.

[Kia ora]

I work as an assistant teacher. My kids got bored doing their homework and started talking about the attacks instead. Theyre barely 12. </p>

<p>Boy: bla bla y los islamistas -<br>
(Tunisian) girl: no. No islamistas. sino yihadistas. (Not islamists, jihadists).<br>
Boy and other girl: vale (okay okay).<br>

</p><p>Maybe she can change the narrative, the association among her classmates.</p> maybe theyll listen to the muslim they know when she tells them that its her religion, she has sovereignty over the name and wont allow others to use the word islam where it doesnt belong.

It disturbs me when peolle share pray for france on social media. Do they actually pray these people? Or has it become a matter of politêsse, something the sharerer doesnt give seriously and the receiver doesnt take serioisly either? The problem with today is that we think were actually doing something by changing our fb profile pics. That we are supporting. 

 

In a way im glad that we over look the brown people in syria or nigeria in favour of the white parisians. If this is our 'grief' and how we express it, if this is our 5min interest, then brtter waste it on the dead of paris than the dead of lebanon. They deserve our real grief and attention.

Lets pray sincerely, lets not be like the hypocrites, prayer is too beautiful to be left as a meme or sonething you just say you do but never do.

[Gabriela]

It disturbs me when peolle share pray for france on social media. Do they actually pray these people? Or has it become a matter of politêsse, something the sharerer doesnt give seriously and the receiver doesnt take serioisly either? The problem with today is that we think were actually doing something by changing our fb profile pics. That we are supporting. 

There's a name for this: "slacktivism".

I'm sure you didn't mean that the people of France don't deserve even bad prayer!