God's Will in discernment

[MarysLittleFlower]

Hi,

I've been trying to figure out for a while... I understand that God doesn't force us into any vocation, and that we have a choice. I understand that at the same time, each person does have a vocation that is better for them as a path to holiness, and that this is how they would become a Saint. At the same time, we should approach discernment with trust, rather than a great fear of "missing" our vocation accidently.

At the same time, I read about Saints where it was very clear that God was calling them to a particular vocation and a particular monastery if it was RL.. and I read also in an article, that God reveals His Will in different ways, - we can find a vocation through reason, which is the most typical way, but if God makes it more 'obvious', we are more bound to follow it because of more knowledge in that regard.

In my own discernment, I've been wondering about how I have certain desires and asking myself if they are desires that God has given me. There are two things I'm trying to understand more...

is it true that God has a particular will, that He doesn't force on us, rather invites us and leads us to it during prayer?

and - what happens if you have a great desire for a specific vocation (like giving yourself to God in religious life), but through circumstances are unable to follow through with it? I mean because of things like illness, other situations etc.. can you still give that desire to God, like an intent to be completely generous with Him? There are Saints that really felt called to a particular convent but couldn't go there because of the will of others or impossibility..

thank you

[chrysostom]

Can't write much this minute, but I can recommend "Religious Vocation: An Unnecessary Mystery" by a Dominican priest.  

[Totally Franciscan]

MLF, your last paragraph stunned me, as it is exactly where I am now.  I keep asking God why does he give me this strong desire for religious life, yet does not provide the means to answer that call.  I suppose I will never know the answer to that until I am united with Him in Heaven.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Totally Franciscan, that is a mystery indeed to me.. You might be interested in the story of St Gemma - she was called to be a Passionist nun and couldn't enter due to others will - but she is counted among Passionist Saints now God still granted her desire in Heaven, as it was His Will! 

[Luigi]

There are any number of examples - some from the past and others still living - of men who were ordained secular priests and then transferred to religious orders (or, like St. Dominic, established a religious order) and of women who entered one order and then switched to another. For instance, Philippine Duchesne entered a Visitation monastery, left it when the French Revolution swept the country (Duchesne was either a novice or in temporary vows), returned to it when she and a few others could, but the mother superior was unable to re-establish common life. So Duchesne contacted Sophie Barat and the former Visitation sisters (and novices or juniors) became Religious of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. A Benedictine nun from New Jersey recently transferred from a monastery in New Jersey of Pennsylvania to a monastery in Arkansas. I know at least one Dominican nun transferred from another monastery to Summit.  

There are secular priests who have recently joined the Benedictine monastery in Kansas, the Trappist monastery in South Carolina, and the Benedictine monastery in Arkansas. I know there are others but I can't think of them off the top of my head. 

The point being - Did these people take up the "wrong" vocation the first time around? Or did God lead them into first one vocation and then another? Or was it more of an evolution/spiritual growth on their part and they made a conscious decision to follow their intuition? I don't know. I guess every story would be different. And I guess you'd have to ask each one whether they misunderstood God's call the first time around, or whatever their own reasoning might be on their decisions/choices. 

[TotusTuusMaria]

When I was younger I was much more concerned than I am now about "missing" my primary vocation. I would never be as happy or save as many souls if I didn't choose and persevere at God's Plan A, right? I wrestled with the idea, "God would be fine with Plan B, but it wasn't His Plan A"... I would live in this secret miserable "contended-ness" ... never able to be as happy as I could have, should have, and would have been.... never able to save as many souls as I could have, should have, or would have. 

But now I see things so differently, and it is because the lover of our souls, the Lord, has shown me how it really is... how He really is. The Lord we love is so incrediablly loving. Imagine the best husband in the world... He constantly chooses you over Himself, forgives even if you reject Him, pursues you to the ends of the earth even when it looks like you will never turn around to face Him, constantly is about making plans for your good, willing things for your good, and making all fit together for your good. His every moment is spent watching over you, sending His servants (angels) to guard you, providing His ministers (priests) to deliver to you gifts to nourish and keep you... it never ends. He is love. His greatest desire is union with us, and as God He will have it (if the soul does not outright reject Him through sin), and even then He still desires that union. He still stands there waiting for that moment when we allow for Him to take all upon Himself and He say, "Let us try again."  

And, with that said... the lover never makes the beloved hate herself, mistrust herself, mistrust him, become confused, and waste her present that she could spend with Him wishing and regretting the past that she chose differently. He does not do that. That is the devil. 

I entered a monastery and maybe it was "Plan A." Everyone supported my vocation... wanted me there... went to great lengths to help me to persevere. I was constantly encouraged by my superiors... I was told there was a sincere belief that I had a vocation. And, perhaps so. I will even go so far as to admit that it very, truly was "Plan A." However, I was unfaithful, and I left. 

After many years of necessary healing due to my own decision (not from a lack of a positive experience because the community was super healthy and a home full of saints) I can say now, "Oh, happy fall..." I am so happy... so joyful that I fell and that "Plan A" did not work out because... Plan B is even better. Plan B brings our Redeemer. When in the history of salvation did our Lord ever allow Himself to be conquered? Our Lord never allows Himself to be outdone by sin or death. He always conquers, and He always proves Himself to truly be God - Love itself. I cannot begin to describe the transformation and healing He has worked in my life. He has worked it so that He has gifted me with a fantastic formation, the best friendships and loves I could have ever imagined, and I can sincerely say right now that I am the happiest I have ever been doing something I never expected nor desired for myself 7 years ago when my heart was filled with desires of the cloister and expectations and hopes of persevering therein. I wish that any child of grace that doubts for one moment their being faithful to God's will for them or constantly finds despair because of a past unfaithfulness could taste the joy that the Lord has given me, the most unworthy child of grace that has likely rejected Him more harshly then they a thousands times over. He is so good. I

There is so much hope, and as He told St. Catherine of Siena... "I am He who is and you are she who is not." How wonderful is that? That is what our hope is in.... we are "she who is not," and "she who is not" does not have to worry about getting it right... she is not going to. She is not. But, He is. And He is ours. And He will work it all out. Just be nothing, and He will be everything and give you everything. 

I think of St. Benedict who tasted knowledge in Rome but encountered the crazy blasphemy of the world. His heart filled with desires for the life of a hermit. He went and lived in a cave for years only to be begged out by a group of monks asking for him to be their father. He goes to be a father to them and they try to poison him and kill him. Should he have stayed in the cave? Was the cave plan A? He leaves and returns to the cave, but while he was with the little, plotting monks he had tasted once more his love for knowledge and sharing his faith with his sons and brothers. But how could that episode have been part of the plan? Nevertheless, He leaves the cave again and founds a monastery and begins western monasticism. Was the poison episode part of the plan? Was it Plan B? Was it all Plan A? What about the beginning of western monasticism? Haha, you see? Who knows... 

Catherine of Siena? Spent years cloistering herself in her room before our Lord told her she had to go out and serve Him. Were those years a mistake? Had she missed something?

I think of Leonie, St. Therese of Lisieux's older sister. She entered the Vistation and left after but a few months. She nurses her father with Celine, he dies, and she enters again (only to leave after two years). Again. St. Therese and her three other sisters meet Leonie in the Carmelite parlor and literally Therese was crying because of the situation Leonie has chosen... to leave again religious life. She writes to Leonie, "You will enter again and this time you will stay." Leonie enters a THIRD time after Therese dies. Because of the shame of these episodes she was rarely mentioned by biographers of Therese. A bishop even excluded her from being mentioned as a sister to Therese while Leonie was still alive, and poor Leonie heard about her exclusion! But, after Therese and her parents who is likely to be canonized? Leonie. Her cause is in the process, and right now holy cards of her are spread throughout France. Her littleness and her weakness she embraced, and now she will likely be declared the next Martin saint. 

And what of Sr. Josefa Menendez, a great mystic who received visions from our Lord? She left the convent several times! Which one was Plan A? She even had to write a letter to herself the last time she entered reminding herself why she entered and commanding herself to stay. She gave it to the Mother Superior and said, "When I come to you (as I surely will) requesting to leave... give me this and make me heed it." In the end though... she will likely will be declared a saint. She was chosen by our Lord for great things and which time when she pursued "her vocation" was it right?

The path of littleness and the acceptance of the reality of our nothingness is His plan. That is the only plan we have to get... everything else falls into place. He takes care of it. We can't make it work. If we want holiness and that is the desire of our heart there is only one thing we have to do, and that is "Delight in Him." 

"Delight in Him, and He will give you the desires of your heart. Trust in Him. He will act." Psalm 37:5

All of this kind of relates and I hope it gives more to think on nevertheless. I know for me I became very concerned with doing God's will in regards to "vocation," that I missed out on the primary vocation which is union with Him. When we are in constant communion with Him, living in a state of grace, doing our duty, and so forth... "vocation" and all the rest just falls into place and these worries and concerns do not even have to enter our heads. He is taking care of everything. Many prayers for you! 

 

[tinytherese]

I remember discerning my vocation off and on. I initially didn't want to, but that's because I had misconceptions about the religious life and hadn't been around nuns or religious sisters before. Over the years, I became properly catechized in the faith and visited some communities.

I wasn't sure what to do. I hadn't found where I belonged and I became more drawn to the vocation of marriage. I felt peace picturing marriage and children, yet became worried that it may not be God's will.

A professor at my Catholic college told my class the following story. A woman entered a religious community, but didn't have one moments peace there. Her spiritual director convinced her to stay and she even took final vows. She still didn't have peace though. Eventually, she got permission from Rome to be dispensed from her vows. She married and finally found peace. The point of the story, is to follow the peace that you feel. 

You can read all you want on the religious life or the priesthood, but nothing compares to actually doing a visit, (preferably to multiple communities.) If you've done that and the desire remains, (regardless of whether you've found the right community,) then you may be called. However, if you do not have peace discerning the religious life or the priesthood, then unless you have any misconceptions about the life, then, you are not. 

That's not to say that if you end up not being called or you transfer to another community, that you were not following the will of God. Sure, maybe mistakes can be made, but that doesn't mean that good can't come from them. For others, God does call them to live a certain way in a certain place temporarily. That's where they were called to be at that time. 

There are those who have posted on Vocation Station that used to belong to a community or communities, but have said that they don't regret the time they spent there. The experiences they had and the people that they encountered helped to shape who they are today. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I'm really trying to understand this... having a bit of difficulty, I'm sorry I'm not good at understanding things often.

I think that sometimes it could be that God's Will can include different things at different times.. I mean it can include trying something and then having to leave, etc, because that can help us to grow in holiness. He may will one thing for one time in a person's life and then will something else for another time. A lot of examples, about Leonie and others, can perhaps be examples of this? if we trust in His holy Will despite all this that can help us to become Saints

TotusTuusMaria, I think I see what you mean about God's love.. I believe of course that no matter what happens or what we do, He is still loving and perhaps that's something He showed you. Also it could be that maybe sometimes it's just His Will to try something and leave. I don't know in specific, of course. I think it's beautiful how you trust God in this way now I think no matter what happens, we can't go wrong with trust, because we need that in every circumstance. (even in cases where we have done something terrible like mortal sin).

I have made many, many mistakes in my life and I see how God can still work through our mistakes for good, because He can turn everything to good.. His plan can be mysterious in that way, because we are free too. However, the idea of God's Will has been really important to me for a while now and after living such a bad life, I really want to follow God's will for me. Even if it would mean suffering, and going one direction and then going in another direction and things not working out, that can be the plan too.

It could also be that at times He wants a person in something really specific, and other times it is less obvious and it's more of a general inclination that the person is aware of. For example, I am not certain if God wishes for me to be a religious or a consecrated person in the world, but I do feel strongly about not marrying.. whenever I get fearful and close myself up to that, my relationship with God becomes more lukewarm and I can't love Him like before. So to me, saying 'no' to this inclination in myself would be like closing myself up to certain graces, which could help in my sanctification or even salvation. I did read that our vocation is related to our salvation. However, maybe there are cases when a person is first drawn to something and then to something else, and if they made a mistake I would advise them to trust and not despair, but seek to love God with all their heart. There's no way of knowing if my past choices have impacted God's plan for me and I was probably unfaithful in many ways due to my sins, but I'm still trying now to learn to love Him. Also, some are more aware of a 'call' than others, and God might show His Will in a more general or a more specific way depending on the person.

In the end, I think holiness is God's Will, and nothing else, and whatever a "vocation" is I guess it's where we would be most free to love Him in the way He made us.. .however, His Will can be mysterious and not something straightforward. I am thinking of Leonie Martin, St Gemma, and other people who either wanted to be religious and couldn't, or their journey to religious life was very difficult and they had to try many times. Another person who is an example of this is Sr Mary of the Holy Trinity, who was a mystic and she tried to be religious several times until finding a convent where she stayed.

I'm still thinking so maybe I'm getting something wrong.. .of course I wouldn't want anyone to despair from all this or get confused. Through trust we get the most graces and whatever has happened in our discernment, we need to stay close to God and not get so anxious that we aren't letting Him work in our souls of course, He doesn't change and always wants our good.

Anyways these are some of my thoughts, maybe kind of scattered, but I'm going to think about the ideas in this thread and try to seek more understanding of this I'm just trying to put things together that I read about vocations, and discernment, - and sometimes it's not too easy to put it all together. Maybe because each person's path and discernment is so different, and God's Will may even involve "failing" in something and having to go somewhere else, even if it's His permissive Will.

Edited November 11, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[chrysostom]

Sometimes if I wonder too much in the same way you describe, I tell myself certain things I could do that I know would be God's Will right here and now, i.e. eliminating sinful habits and replacing them with prayer and good works.  His Will is for me to grow in virtue; the daily effort to be a saint is inseparable from the process of discerning my future state of life.  Not that you have to be really really holy to know anything - by no means!!!!  But at least it is a comfort to me, when I wonder about God's Will, that I already know the really important bits:  He loves me, and He invites me to respond with all of my love, right now.  And even then that is hard to get my mind - or my heart - around, and, sighing, I ask Holy Mary to take the pittance of self-offering I can currently muster up and offer it to God through her own hands as a humble dish on a silver platter.  And I vent to my favourite saints.  And, if there is the opportunity, I go to church and spend some time with Jesus in front of the tabernacle and trust that that time is very well spent, silently drawing graces forth, and bearing fruit for my good and for the good of all His Holy Church.

[Lilllabettt]

I have mentioned this before in another thread, but I'll mention it here too. The cross we bear is custom made, and unique in all of the world. Because it is unique and there is none like it, the wisdom that can be gained from bearing it is also unique. It is unrepeatable. When you are gone, the wisdom that can be gained from your experience will also be gone. Your experience of life is therefore a precious treasure.

Who am I to say. But perhaps God wills us to walk a path that is incomprehensible to us because He desires to bring a unique wisdom into the world. And the only way that wisdom can be born into the world is if you, YOU, walk this particular incomprehensible path.

The human family gained something priceless when St. Gemma was given the desire to enter religious life and then was denied. And perhaps carrying that particular Cross (and passing on the unique wisdom of her experience) was the reason God called her into existence in the first place.

[McM RSCJ]

MLF, may I suggest a different approach?  Instead of ruminating whether your desires for Religious Life are trustworthy and from God, why not focus on  concrete and practical choices--daily steps--necessary for any mature woman of faith to live fully in the present moment, while at the same time preparing to enter a Religious Order. 

Examples could include:

1.  Having become fully self-supporting, employed in a challenging position, not dependent on others financially or emotionally.

2.  Having a realistic plan in place to pay down any debts, even if this entails taking on a second job, forgoing vacations, etc.  

3.  Making sure to deal with any health problems, physical or psychological, by seeking any needed medical attention.

4.  Developing one's professional skill sets, keeping up in one's field, or finishing one's credentials, degree, etc.   

5.  Getting to know members of the Religious Community one finds attractive, learning whether that community's charism and ministry make a good fit with one's own attractions and talents.

6.  In meantime, living a full and normal life.  Family, friends, relationships, celebrations, enjoyment of the arts, keeping up with world events, all along with the daily round of paying bills, washing the dishes, cleanin the apartment. . . and so on. . .

(The above list assumes continuing to live one's faith, grow in one's relationship with God, meet periodically with a Spiritual Director--one component of which meeting would be whether or not one is progressing in accomplishing those specific tasks.)

I think it would be better to attend to these basics than to dwell on stories about people from the past, hoping to find a road map for onself in someone else's story. 

Putting the point another way, if a mature woman considering religious life is not engaging in the practical steps listed above, all the abstract "discernment" in the world will clarify nothing.  Years can drift by with no forward motion.  I think this is the wisdom found in statements like:  We find the path in walking. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks for the replies I think its very true about each cross and wisdom from it being unique. McM RSCJ, I see what you mean.. I have spent much time thinking about the future and probably not enough on the present. I want to fulfill my present duty too. I also want to make my discernment more active and I have begun to contact a community and went to meet a Mother Superior of another community. I also have a spiritual director, a job, and im pretty involved in my parish and have hobbies... I find though that i have a strong desire to give myself more fully to Our Lord and for me that seems to lead me to another desire for a contemplative religious life. Even as I do these other things, I feel so incomplete somehow. Maybe I need to accept more fully God's Will right now.. But since I don't know if I could be a religious, due to my situation, I sometimes wonder if I'll always be in this position. I do a whole bunch of things and everything that is too much in the world makes me feel so empty. I don't necessarily mean dealing with people or my job (though I don't enjoy it naturally, that's ok) - but other things that come with that. Most of all I have a fear that my desire to only love Our Lord exclusively and not marry is something I made up.. This is something thats so central to my relationship with Him that I've had for years. But I feel so unworthy of it especially as I have a bad past.  Lol I know much of this is something to discuss in spiritual direction, and I will, but just for any encouragement i would be very grateful  

Edited November 12, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower