Brainwashed

[KnightofChrist]

@Josh

Whether or not there is a fixed number of times God will forgive a sin, one way or another God does only forgive sins so many times. Our lives are like those of grass, we grow and we live for but a short time, and then we are cut down. Our days upon the Earth are short, there is only a short time in which we can sin and repent of those sins for God to forgive.  If a man lives to be 52 and he commits the same mortal sin once every year and repents of that sin every year save for his last then the amount of times God will forgive that man of that sin is 51.  

Also it is possible that there are a fixed number of times God will forgive certain sins before he forgives it no more. We are called by Christ not to just repent of our sins, but to repent and sin no more. If a man's wife cheats on him, but then repents and begs his forgiveness only to cheat on him again, and again, and again, and again, and again repeating the cycle over and over and over again. How many times will he forgive her before he comes to the conclusion that yes she repents and for a short time is sorrowful for her sins and for a short time is faithful but then after a time turns back to the same sin, failing to sin no more. If God does have a fixed number of times he will forgive certain mortal sins it is likely linked with our repenting in vain, those who repent but fail to sin no more, those who fail to fight against the sin, those who just give in to sin every time they are tempted thinking to themselves I can just repent again later and everything will be cool.

Edited November 5, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Ice_nine]

side question: what does taking the Lord's name in vain actually mean? Does saying "oh my God" all the time qualify? I always thought the second commandment was more about blasphemy, which requires a spirit of hatred towards God. jw

[Guest]

@Josh

Whether or not there is a fixed number of times God will forgive a sin, one way or another God does only forgive sins so many times. Our lives are like those of grass, we grow and we live for but a short time, and then we are cut down. Our days upon the Earth are short, there is only a short time in which we can sin and repent of those sins for God to forgive.  If a man lives to be 52 and he commits the same mortal sin once every year and repents of that sin every year save for his last then the amount of times God will forgive that man of that sin is 51.  

Also it is possible that there are a fixed number of times God will forgive certain sins before he forgives it no more. We are called by Christ not to just repent of our sins, but to repent and sin no more. If a man's wife cheats on him, but then repents and begs his forgiveness only to cheat on him again, and again, and again, and again, and again repeating the cycle over and over and over again. How many times will he forgive her before he comes to the conclusion that yes she repents and for a short time is sorrowful for her sins and for a short time is faithful but then after a time turns back to the same sin, failing to sin no more. If God does have a fixed number of times he will forgive certain mortal sins it is likely linked with our repenting in vain, those who repent but fail to sin no more, those who fail to fight against the sin, those who just give in to sin every time they are tempted thinking to themselves I can just repent again later and everything will be cool.

If he's smart he will divorse her after the first time she cheats and definitely after the second. If you ask Jesus He says she deserves forgiveness at least 77 times.

[KnightofChrist]

Taking the Lord's name in vain is to use the Lord's name in a way that is meaningless or for a purpose that has nothing really to do with God. Taking the Lord's name in vain is, as I understand, a form of blasphemy.

If he's smart he will divorse her after the first time she cheats and definitely after the second. If you ask Jesus He says she deserves forgiveness at least 77 times.

He cannot divorce her of course, and it would be 7 times 70. Unless of course the repentance is made in vain and the person deep down does not actually intend on sinning no more.

[Guest]

And to keep it 100 I struggle with grave sins every single day. If they end up being mortal only God truly knows. I wonder who these near perfect Catholics are who only deal with one grave sin a year? I trust Jesus went to the Cross and died for every single sin I will ever committ. I don't deserve His forgiveness or His love but I'm thankful for it everyday. I'm flawed and will always be until I die. I repent and I love God. I won't fall into despair that Jesus may cut off His forgiveness for me. Or that 5 year olds are in hell who slipped up and took His name in vain once then died. 

 

He cannot divorce her of course, and it would be 7 times 70. Unless of course the repentance is made in vain and the person deep down does not actually intend on sinning no more.

Why can't he divorce her? And 7×70 my bad.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

And to keep it 100 I struggle with grave sins every single day. If they are mortal only God truly knows. I wonder who these near perfect Catholics are who only deal with one grave sin a year? I trust Jesus went to the Cross and died for every single sin I will ever committ. I don't deserve His forgiveness or His love but I'm thankful for it everyday. I'm flawed and will always be until I die. I repent and I love God. I won't fall into despair that Jesus may cut off His forgiveness for me. Or that 5 year olds are in hell who slipped up and took His name in vain once then died. 

There is no perfect Catholic anywhere upon the Earth. I was merely using an example that would be easily understood, of course the man if real would commit more than one mortal sin per year. Yes Christ died and took on sin, all sin, every sin and yes none of us deserve his forgiveness or his love and we should all be thankful to him every single moment we have. We are all flawed, we will all be flawed until the day we die. We should all truly repent for our love of God. But any person of any age who knowingly commits by their own free will a mortal sin of any kind, blasphemy included, and does not repent of that sin or has no intention of repenting of that sin and that person dies unrepentant will not be saved. There must be repentance before there can be forgiveness. If a child is able to commit evil acts, commit mortal sin by acts of their will and reason they are able to condemn themselves just as much as we are able. God is not a respecter of persons.

[Basilisa Marie]

Re: taking the Lord's name in vain.

Originally it had to do with swearing an oath. If you swore an oath before God, you were expected to keep it. It was the strongest means of being a "man of your word." It gave whatever you said authority. If you swore you would do something or that something was true in the name of God but then decided not to do it, not only do you look like a lying idiot but in some ways it damages God's reputation. 

Like, for example: In Game of Thrones there's this sacred hospitality covenant. If you take in a guest under your roof and give them bread and salt or whatever, absolutely no harm can befall them, even if they're your worst enemy with whom you're actively warring. Over the course of the story, one family breaks this covenant, and kills their enemies while they're enjoying the family's hospitality. Because the covenant was broken, no one else in the land was able to trust it as much as they could before. The hospitality covenant was damaged. One family's "sin" against the idea of hospitality ruined the idea itself, in a way. The same sort of thing can be applied to what happens when they took the name of the Lord God in vain. 

Nowadays we take it to mean anything from asking God to send someone to Hell or just using profanity. But that's like saying gossip is a violation of "Thou shalt not murder" because you're damaging someone's reputation. It's still serious, but not the same as how we originally understood the commandment. 

[Guest]

@KnightofChrist A 5 year old takes the Lord's name in vain. You or someone else somehow comes to the conclusion this 5 year old meets all 3 conditions for Mortal Sin and he is in mortal sin. Never mind the fact he hasn't had his first Confession yet. This 5 year old took the Lord's name in vain a week before he dies. No Confession. Upon death you don't think Jesus radiates him with His love and says hey buddy I created you. Want to come with me? You honestly believe Jesus just sends him to hell to be tortured for eternity? You actually believe this? I have nothing else to be doing right now or I wouldn't even be typing this out. That's how ridiculous it is. Actually I should be praying a Rosary for souls in Purgatory. So I really need to stop posting and we are getting nowhere. You and I view God very differently. How you think he deals with the little ones and how I think He does seems to be in a pretty big contrast. I'm one of those Catholics who actually DOES believe in hell and that souls can go there for infinite. So I take it VERY SERIOUSLY when people start making claims about the God I LOVE and how he deals with children for all of eternity. Especially when He made it very clear how much these children mean to Him. Again kids are capable of evil. Even with that being the case I think God has a redemptive plan for them. You know the really bad ones who murder at the age of 8. Could they be in hell? According to you yes. Is it possible sure. Murder is evil. What I won't accept is God sends a 5 year old boy or an 8 year old girl to hell after they committ their "first sin" then unexpectedly die like that Sermon says. Sorry. If that makes me a bad Catholic or whatever else so be it. I will become an atheist before I believe God to be some monster who allows kids be tortured in hell for eternity after their first mistake and an untimely death.

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

Why can't he divorce her? And 7×70 my bad.

Christ forbids divorce, the two become one flesh, what God has joined together let no man put asunder. Some attempt to use "except it be for fornication" as a acceptance of divorce but that applies to putting away second or third 'wives' or concubines. The first wife so long as she lives is the real and only wife.

[KnightofChrist]

A 5 year old takes the Lord's name in vain. You or someone else somehow comes to the conclusion this 5 year old meets all 3 conditions for Mortal Sin and he is in mortal sin. Never mind the fact he hasn't had his first Confession yet. This 5 year old took the Lord's name in vain a week before he dies. No Confession. Upon death you don't think Jesus radiates him with His love and says hey buddy I created you. Want to come with me? You honestly believe Jesus just sends him to hell to be tortured for eternity? You actually believe this? I have nothing else to be doing right now or I wouldn't even be typing this out. That's how ridiculous it is. Actually I should be praying a Rosary for souls in Purgatory. So I really need to stop posting and we are getting nowhere. You and I view God very differently. How you think he deals with the little ones and how I think He does seems to be in a pretty big contrast. I'm one of those Catholics who actually DOES believe in hell and that souls can go there for infinite. So I take it VERY SERIOUSLY when people start making claims about the God I LOVE and how he deals with children for all of eternity. Especially when he made it very clear how much these children mean to Him. Again kids are capable of evil. Even with that being the case I think God has a redemptive plan for them. You know the really bad ones who murder at the age of 8. Could they be in hell? According to you yes. Is it possible sure. Murder is evil. What I won't accept is God sends a 5 year old boy or an 8 year old girl to hell after they committ their "first sin" then unexpectedly die. Sorry. If that makes me a bad Catholic or whatever else so be it. I will become an atheist before I believe God to be some monster who allows kids be tortured in hell for eternity after their first mistake and an untimely death.

 

Most 5 year old children are not able to commit mortal sins because they have not reached the age of reason. They do not understand right from wrong, or at least they do not fully understand right from wrong. However, you ask me what if a child takes the Lord's name in vain, ie blasphemes. A child can only do that if in fact the child is able to reason right from wrong, otherwise the child does not blaspheme. I'm answering the question in the way in which it was asked. I'm asked to assume the child has committed blasphemy, ie taking the Lord's name in vain. Therefor I'm asked to assume the child is able to reason right from wrong, I'm asked to assume that the child knows that blasphemy is a mortal sin. To blaspheme is to commit a mortal sin. For one to commit a moral sin they must have the reason and understanding of good and evil, they must know right from wrong, they must understand that to blaspheme is wrong. If they do not understand this, they are not guilty of mortal sin. If anyone of any age commits blasphemy then that person is in fact able to reason and understand right from wrong, understands that blasphemy is wrong and should not be committed, if by their own free will they blaspheme God and then die unrepentant that person would condemn themselves. God does not forgive unrepentant mortal sinners.

Edited November 5, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Guest]

I didn't come up with that example. It was from the wonderful Sermon that so many people here seem to be so fond of.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

I didn't come up with that example. It was from the wonderful Sermon that so many people here seem to be fond of.

Still you did ask me the question, I answered the question in the way in which it was asked and in the example it is assumed then that the child has reach the age of reason. Otherwise the child would not have been able to commit blasphemy.

Edited November 5, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Basilisa Marie]

I didn't come up with that example. It was from the wonderful Sermon that so many people here seem to be so fond of.

Let it go bro.  

[Credo in Deum]

 How do you defend the teaching that God only forgives sins so many times? You agree with this @Credo in Deum?

Yes, I believe it and the teaching is best defended by Saint Alphonsus, Doctor of the Church, who uses Scripture and the Church Fathers in the video.  I would recommend you watch it again and strive to take into account EVERYTHING which is being said in the sermon. You seem to tune things out and hear only what you want to hear. 

Here's another great sermon by this amazing saint on, The Delusions of Sinners.

 

 

[Anomaly]

Be careful of what you ask and who you ask, Josh.   You may end up where I am.   I'm not down with the concept of believing a child can earn being fried alive for eternity and thinking they chose that.