Brainwashed

[PhuturePriest]

As someone who has occasional bouts of scrupulosity, I empathize with finding such things and then having a feeling of hopelessness. If not even a little girl can make it, how the heck will I? 

But a good and holy priest told me I need to offer up my scruples and entrust them to God. "Loving and kind Jesus, I can't handle this. My faith is too weak and my mind too dim to judge these situations, so I'm entrusting myself to you. Have mercy and understanding, Lord."

I've even sometimes experienced the thought of "The more knowledgeable I get, the more scrupulous I become. Why don't I just quit?" But that's why scrupulosity is so dangerous: It drives us away from God. 

These thoughts are not of God. These reactions are not what God wants me to have. These are a cross he's entrusted to me. He wants me to ignore these thoughts and offer them up out of love for him. 

In short: This tendency is a means by which I am supposed to grow closer to God and learn complete trust. This is a special cross God gave me (much like my stammer) to show my love for him more than I would be able to otherwise. 

I recommend (as have others) to not read or listen to things which distress you this much. My favorite person to go to when I need to experience the hope and beauty of Catholicism is Bishop Robert Barron. I recommend you look into his material. 

[Guest]

@MarysLittleFlower I understand everything fine. I love God. Brainwashing and fear mongering is evil. I would tread very lightly and be very careful when doing it in God's name.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[MarysLittleFlower]

5 year olds don't choose hell.

Whoever chooses hell, chooses hell.  Its enough to know that. The sermon illustrates the gravity, we don't have to know the rest or get hung up on the details.. Worrying about tiny details can be a distraction from the point this sermon was making. What can we get from it to help us be saved? That is the real question.

 

For me it makes me see the seriousness of sin so its really amazing that God died for us when sin is such a grave offense. He didn't want souls to be lost. That makes me love Him more not less. 

@MarysLittleFlower I understand everything fine. I love God. Brainwashing and fear mongering is evil. I would tread very lightly and be very careful when doing it in God's name.

No one is fear mongering or brainwashing.  

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Guest]

As someone who has occasional bouts of scrupulosity, I empathize with finding such things and then having a feeling of hopelessness. If not even a little girl can make it, how the heck will I? 

But a good and holy priest told me I need to offer up my scruples and entrust them to God. "Loving and kind Jesus, I can't handle this. My faith is too weak and my mind too dim to judge these situations, so I'm entrusting myself to you. Have mercy and understanding, Lord."

I've even sometimes experienced the thought of "The more knowledgeable I get, the more scrupulous I become. Why don't I just quit?" But that's why scrupulosity is so dangerous: It drives us away from God. 

These thoughts are not of God. These reactions are not what God wants me to have. These are a cross he's entrusted to me. He wants me to ignore these thoughts and offer them up out of love for him. 

In short: This tendency is a means by which I am supposed to grow closer to God and learn complete trust. This is a special cross God gave me (much like my stammer) to show my love for him more than I would be able to otherwise. 

I recommend (as have others) to not read or listen to things which distress you this much. My favorite person to go to when I need to experience the hope and beauty of Catholicism is Bishop Robert Barron. I recommend you look into his material. 

I love Father Barron. I live in L.A. and the thing is I don't let it bother me in the sense I think it's true. It angers me because it's brainwashing and fear mongering done in God's name. It's not wise. Preaching 5 year olds are in hell is not cool.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[Maggyie]

Actually only some Protestants believe that, many of them don't. Just like the Catholic Church doesn't require you to believe there are any children in hell or that it is even likely there are children in hell. The bit about how God only forgives x number of sins is nonsense, that's what happens when simple folk read too much about theology. They take everything literally. 

I personally think these visions (including the approved ones) are just rooted in pious stories people tell. Like it's supposed to "scare you straight." 

In childhood we may remember choosing to be disobedient or bad but that doesn't mean we fully understood and made a mature choice. From what I've learned of how the brain can be damaged by neglect and insecure attachment it casts a lot of doubt on tales of juvenile psychopaths. Many of these  children commit crimes as part of a neurological response, their brains have literally rewired. Can a person with a damaged brain freely choose mortal sin? The bar is pretty high I think. 

[Guest]

@MarysLittleFlower I'm not "worrying about tiny details" He's saying a 5 year old is in hell. That's garbage. You want to listen to that go for it. It's toxic. God is love. Love doesn't torture a 5 year old in hell for eternity. You want to believe that's the character of God and listen to teachers who preach that's the character of God be my guest. I will rightfully call it what it is. Toxic and Brainwashing. Fear mongering.You expect an atheist to come to God after hearing 5 year olds are in hell? You expect an atheist to believe God is good after hearing that?  

Edited November 5, 2015 by Guest

[PhuturePriest]

I love Father Barron. I live in L.A. And the thing is I don't let it bother me in the sense I think it's true. It angers me because it's brainwashing and fear mongering done in God's name. It's not wise. Preaching 5 year olds are in hell is not cool.

I understand. I wouldn't exactly call it "brainwashing", as the people are sincere. I don't think it's intellectually honest to call something brainwash just because we don't like it. 

There is speculation about how many are in hell, who is in hell, how did they get in hell, etc. Just ignore it. It isn't healthy. It's all guesswork and interpretation. Just focus on loving God, remember that most are sincere in their belief and are simply trying to do their best regardless of how misguided their approach is, and try your best to get to heaven and bring as many people with you as you can. God will do the rest for you. He's kind of cool like that.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm not speculating on whether a 5 year old is in hell or not. I'm saying your reasoning is flawed.

You say that a loving God wouldn't want to torture 5 year olds in hell AS IF He wants to torture others in hell. When in fact God is more (not less) loving than you seem to imply and He doesn't want to torture anyone there. He died so people would be saved from that. One of His greatest sufferings was seeing that souls would still be lost. They go there cause they CHOOSE it not because He wants it. The way you are speaking of what God wants implies like you dont see hell as a choice. 

So its completely irrelevant to this how old those people are, that can be discussed but it would be a discussion about free will and age of reason NOT about God's love. Did you know He asked a victim soul to suffer three hours of the Passion for Stalin, who was dying and according to this, still said no to grace? That's something I read. God doesn't want a little girl in hell. He doesn't EVEN want Stalin in hell. He doesn't want Hitler in hell.  If they go there its through their choice - whatever their mortal sin is, though their suffering would increase with gravity and number of sins.

Your reasoning makes no sense to me because you are saying "this can't be true BECAUSE God doesn't want a child in hell"... Yet He doesn't want anyone there and they *still* go there. Because its a choice. So....clearly IF a child went to hell its contrary to what God wants for them! Why blame God for the way someone rejected His offer?

I dont see the logic there. If your argument was that a child cant commit mortal sin, that would be a different way of reasoning and also a different topic. Yet you are consistently speaking about God's love being opposed to this, which misses the point IMO. 

[Lilllabettt]

Actually only some Protestants believe that, many of them don't. Just like the Catholic Church doesn't require you to believe there are any children in hell or that it is even likely there are children in hell. The bit about how God only forgives x number of sins is nonsense, that's what happens when simple folk read too much about theology. They take everything literally. 

I personally think these visions (including the approved ones) are just rooted in pious stories people tell. Like it's supposed to "scare you straight." 

In childhood we may remember choosing to be disobedient or bad but that doesn't mean we fully understood and made a mature choice. From what I've learned of how the brain can be damaged by neglect and insecure attachment it casts a lot of doubt on tales of juvenile psychopaths. Many of these  children commit crimes as part of a neurological response, their brains have literally rewired. Can a person with a damaged brain freely choose mortal sin? The bar is pretty high I think. 

You are talking out of your bottom.

You have no experience with children. At all. Nor do you have an education in developmental psychology.

Conveniently, I have both those things. So I feel confident in saying I am not talking out of my bottom when I say that kids can and do freely choose to do evil. You know, what you say is actually offensive to kids dealing with toxic stress. No matter where kids come from, they can make good choices.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Just listened to the video more. He says that a boy who was 8 committed his first sin and God let him be killed. So he could go to hell for all of eternity. He then says he does the same thing to a girl who is 12. How can any Christian support this? I really want to know. You would raise your children and have them listen to this and believe this about God?

[MarysLittleFlower]

Look to me the main part of this sermon has nothing to do with whether this person is 5 or 8 or whatever. The main idea is that a mortal sin is a "no" to God. Its not like when we collect a certain number of mortal sins we become not good enough. A mortal sin IS a choice. So its a reminder to me to reject sin and make the opposite choice. I'm not even thinking about the age thing. It was not a discussion on age - this sermon. That's not the point - rather that mortal sin is serious. 

[Maggyie]

You are talking out of your bottom.

You have no experience with children. At all. Nor do you have an education in developmental psychology.

Conveniently, I have both those things. So I feel confident in saying I am not talking out of my bottom when I say that kids can and do freely choose to do evil. You know, what you say is actually offensive to kids dealing with toxic stress. No matter where kids come from, they can make good choices.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say they couldn't make good choices. I said the bar is high. Which it is. 

[Seven77]

 I definitely think you should just ignore this completely.  Just read the quote from St. Alphonsus… he was quoting St. Gregory.  the story was intended to reinforce the fact that mortal sin that is not repented of is choosing hell. God doesn't send anyone to hell-- people choose it, possibly even children theoretically could. But I wouldn't put much stock in the stories, the examples, to make these teachings--- take the teachings not necessarily the stories.  That's how to read certain spiritual writings.

 Just relax, serve God, avoid committing serious sins-- and if you happen to fall, just repent and go to confession as soon as possible.  And pray for us, your fellow sinners.

[Guest]

I'm not speculating on whether a 5 year old is in hell or not. I'm saying your reasoning is flawed.

You say that a loving God wouldn't want to torture 5 year olds in hell AS IF He wants to torture others in hell. When in fact God is more (not less) loving than you seem to imply and He doesn't want to torture anyone there. He died so people would be saved from that. One of His greatest sufferings was seeing that souls would still be lost. They go there cause they CHOOSE it not because He wants it. The way you are speaking of what God wants implies like you dont see hell as a choice. 

So its completely irrelevant to this how old those people are, that can be discussed but it would be a discussion about free will and age of reason NOT about God's love. Did you know He asked a victim soul to suffer three hours of the Passion for Stalin, who was dying and according to this, still said no to grace? That's something I read. God doesn't want a little girl in hell. He doesn't EVEN want Stalin in hell. He doesn't want Hitler in hell.  If they go there its through their choice - whatever their mortal sin is, though their suffering would increase with gravity and number of sins.

Your reasoning makes no sense to me because you are saying "this can't be true BECAUSE God doesn't want a child in hell"... Yet He doesn't want anyone there and they *still* go there. Because its a choice. So....clearly IF a child went to hell its contrary to what God wants for them! Why blame God for the way someone rejected His offer?

I dont see the logic there. If your argument was that a child cant commit mortal sin, that would be a different way of reasoning and also a different topic. Yet you are consistently speaking about God's love being opposed to this, which misses the point IMO. 

Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong. Not what I said. I SAID that if a 5 year old is in hell that is God choosing to torture a 5 year old in hell for eternity. I'm not talking about adults or even "13" year olds. Or fricking 8 year olds. Talking about a FIVE YEAR OLD. 5 year olds don't comprehend eternity and choosing hell for eternity. Luckily for me God (Jesus) loves the kids and says to let them come to him. He doesn't give a 5 year old the option "to choose" hell over being with Him. God is good. God is love. He doesn't set up 8 year olds and 12 year olds so they die right after their first sin and then go to hell as this video implies. Can't believe people attempt to defend this. It's unreal.

[Ice_nine]

@Josh

It's ok to wrestle with things that bother you. Hell bothers me, so I get it, and it bothers me when other Catholics insinuate that I must not be fully "down for the cause" so to speak because these things trouble me. These people are mostly unhelpful in helping me come to grips with various teachings/visions/etc.

But I must implore you to stop saying things like "I will become a protestant" even if you are joking. It shows either a flippancy or a lack of understanding of the faith that is not befitting of someone with a CM tag. So please stahp.

@everyone else 

It's not helpful when someone is struggling to understand something, or is troubled by something about the faith, to take your self-administered orthodoxy test. I'm sure you'll be the first people to utter platitudes of how "I'm a terrible sinner I don't think I'm better than anyone else blah blah blah . . ." but it's hard to buy when you have people try to pass your purity test to see if their up to snuff. Do you think that's a good response when someone is clearly agitated?

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ice_nine