Brainwashed

[Seven77]

Alot of these stories, are disgusting, assorted fiction.  They are meant to scare people.  There's another story floating around that there was a father who "welcomed" his daughter to hell at age 13 because she "chose" to continue the life of prositution that he sold her into.

I think that some of these "visions" are tricks of the devil trying to get people to despair.  

 Sometimes in their exuberance,  some Saints and spiritual writers use stories without verifying sources…. it would be interesting to find out where St. Gregory wrote the story.  I wouldn't put this story on a level as the one you just mentioned though--- where did you read it it?  I would be actually very surprised if a saint said that-- I very much doubt it. 

[dUSt]

When I read this thread I find myself wondering how some of the posters who are arguing with Josh relate to people in the real world. Josh is obviously out living in the real world, confronting battles every day, if I had to guess, with people who are in direct contradiction to the Church. Some of the people arguing with Josh seem to be approaching him in a way a theology major would debate a philosophy major. It's like two different worlds. One group is safe in an air-conditioned classroom, and the other is out on the front lines getting bloody--and the comfy students seem to be looking down upon the soldier.

Just my take.

[Nihil Obstat]

When I read this thread I find myself wondering how some of the posters who are arguing with Josh relate to people in the real world. Josh is obviously out living in the real world, confronting battles every day, if I had to guess, with people who are in direct contradiction to the Church. Some of the people arguing with Josh seem to be approaching him in a way a theology major would debate a philosophy major. It's like two different worlds. One group is safe in an air-conditioned classroom, and the other is out on the front lines getting bloody--and the comfy students seem to be looking down upon the soldier.

Just my take.

I am not sure how you can make that assumption without totally disregarding the experiences and backgrounds of everyone else here who disagrees with Josh's frequent overreactions. Have you seen my air-conditioned classroom?

[dominicansoul]

When I read this thread I find myself wondering how some of the posters who are arguing with Josh relate to people in the real world. Josh is obviously out living in the real world, confronting battles every day, if I had to guess, with people who are in direct contradiction to the Church. Some of the people arguing with Josh seem to be approaching him in a way a theology major would debate a philosophy major. It's like two different worlds. One group is safe in an air-conditioned classroom, and the other is out on the front lines getting bloody--and the comfy students seem to be looking down upon the soldier.

Just my take.

So calling people "brainwashed" and then not listening to explanations because they don't jive with his overreaction makes Josh a true soldier living out in the "real world?"  

 

got it...

Edited November 10, 2015 by dominicansoul

[Anomaly]

THIS is Phatmass!

[dUSt]

Have you seen my air-conditioned classroom?

Nope.

So calling people "brainwashed" and then not listening to explanations because they don't jive with his overreaction makes Josh a true soldier living out in the "real world?"

Is this what you think I am saying? Like, for real? If so, I will reply. I am pretty sure that you do not think this is what I am saying though. Your reply seems more geared to a fight rather than an introspective observation.

[dominicansoul]

I thought this entire thread was started as a fight without introspective observation...

 

[dUSt]

You guys take my comments as you will. I was offering an outside looking in observation. If it makes you defensive, then please see it as an opportunity to become more like a saint.

[dominicansoul]

[Anomaly]

I thought this entire thread was started as a fight without introspective observation...

 

Not at all.   Josh is a passionate person and does tend to react/post with intense emotions.  

He has posted a lot for a long time, so it should be easy for long time posters to read in context. 

Josh has a strong sense of mercy and judgement.  He believes in God and Jesus.  He was affronted and confused at what he interpreted as Saints espousing theological justice in harsh punishment towards children over what he sees as Jesus' love and mercy, particularly towards children.  

Eventually, patience, sympathy, and politeness communicated a more thorough and complete explanation to Josh.  

It's human nature to give too much credence to our perceptions that creates our reality.   Josh wasn't fighting Orthodoxy as some perceived.   He felt he was fighting for the Good News of Jesus.   

But this is Phatmass. 

[KnightofChrist]

When I read this thread I find myself wondering how some of the posters who are arguing with Josh relate to people in the real world. Josh is obviously out living in the real world, confronting battles every day, if I had to guess, with people who are in direct contradiction to the Church. Some of the people arguing with Josh seem to be approaching him in a way a theology major would debate a philosophy major. It's like two different worlds. One group is safe in an air-conditioned classroom, and the other is out on the front lines getting bloody--and the comfy students seem to be looking down upon the soldier.

Just my take.

Or from another perspective those of us that responded to Josh, even though we are fallen and imperfect human beings, did so out of love for our brother, out of love for the Church, and out of love for the Saints and Doctors of the Church.

I admit that at first I did not reply to him in the best manner that I could. The way in which he made his statements to me was hurtful, hostile and emotional. I am use to being called "brainwashed" and having other extremely negative language directed towards me by those that are against the Church when I'm out there "on the front lines," but by not fellow Catholics. That did make me a little upset which is why in anger I said Josh was trash talking, but it is wrong to return negative emotion for negative emotion. Still I love Josh as my Christian brother and after thinking and praying about it I chose not to give up on him and attempted to talk to him in manner that wouldn't make the thread more emotional.

But I don't believe others made the same mistake I did and they did their very best in a loving, calm and professional way to talk to Josh about the subject that was troubling him. Perhaps by responding in a calm and professional way is the reason you see it as some sort of theology or philosophy major? The trouble is that it is always very hard to speak to someone when they are hostile and emotional. It's hard to reason with them, it's hard to talk calmly with them because they can say things to or that push your buttons. Again I failed at first, but afterwards I did my best to focus on just the topic of mortal sin and hell itself. Because doing that prevented me from making the same mistake again I did not want to return anger for anger. I wanted to speak to Josh in the best most reasonable manner that I could, out of love and respect. Not like a lofty professor who strokes his bread and looks down from his pipe on with those whom he disagrees. 

As Catholics we're on the same side, we all have our struggles, we're on the battle lines together surrounded by the enemies of the Church, and we all live in the one real deal Holyfield world.

 

[chrysostom]

This is sort of off-topic, and piggybacking off KoC's post about emotions and conversation (so more general speculation and not about the current thread) but I do have to say I can find conflict very hard to deal with.  I mean, NO one is going to say conflict is "easy".  But there are some times when I recognize personality traits of mine that just don't mesh with someone else's, particularly in face-to-face conflict.

If someone is mad at me I will often clam up inside.  I would respond with perhaps the bare minimum of expression, and say what I need to say but with the minimum of words used.  Sometimes this deflects potential conflict if the person is just lashing out a little or venting, in which case that is a positive outcome.  But if their problem is with me in particular, my response appears to be utterly inadequate, which may or may not be true depending on the situation.  At that point I will feel caught in a catch-22.  My lack of outward emotional response (remember I'm clamming up inside!) will seem like I'm not taking them seriously, even if I'm technically saying the right words. This can make them more mad at me and I just clam up more.  On the other hand, if I responded in a more "usual" way by raising my voice and gesticulating, etc (even though the words are the same in both cases), I know that their default response to that is also to fire shots right back and escalate.  What's a guy to do?

Now thankfully this almost never happens now, maybe once or twice in the last five years.  It happened more during my early-to-mid teenage years.  I've grown up a lot since then.  Still, I recognize that it can still happen at some point in the future.  I wonder if anyone has had similar experiences.

[dUSt]

 Not like a lofty professor who strokes his bread and looks down from his pipe on with those whom he disagrees.

Are you talking about a culinary professor?

[dominicansoul]

Not at all.   Josh is a passionate person and does tend to react/post with intense emotions.  

He has posted a lot for a long time, so it should be easy for long time posters to read in context. 

Josh has a strong sense of mercy and judgement.  He believes in God and Jesus.  He was affronted and confused at what he interpreted as Saints espousing theological justice in harsh punishment towards children over what he sees as Jesus' love and mercy, particularly towards children.  

Eventually, patience, sympathy, and politeness communicated a more thorough and complete explanation to Josh.  

It's human nature to give too much credence to our perceptions that creates our reality.   Josh wasn't fighting Orthodoxy as some perceived.   He felt he was fighting for the Good News of Jesus.   

But this is Phatmass. 

 I think people find attitude in others' words on the internet, when the attitude isn't intended.  Josh started calling others "better Catholics than him" just for disagreeing with his outrage.  I know that's definitely not my intention to come off to him as a "holier than thou" when I'm the worst sinner on phatmass.

 

But like you said, this is phatmass, where misunderstandings abound and drama erupts over nothing.  But at least it keeps people posting instead of having to wait hours and hours for some interaction on here...

[dUSt]

Thanks for getting my joke @Seven77