How one can let other people influence their faith negatively

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

I don't think its snobby to consider one thing especially beautiful / reverent.. Snobby would be thinking that I'm better for that. If that temptation happens its to be resisted. I don't think that's a reason to avoid that thing if its good for spiritual growth. I personally feel more fed spiritually at the Latin Mass so i go there. I don't know sometimes I feel awkward if people think 'the trads are 'weird'' but in the end its worth it just for the Mass, and practicing Catholics are probably already 'weird' in our culture.  

 

Lilllibettt was not saying it was snobby to consider one form of Mass especially beautiful and reverent for an individual person. (Lilli, correct me if I'm wrong about your meaning.) Lilllibettt was saying that perhaps it was better for HER spiritual life and growth not to go to Latin Mass, at least right now.

What can be the right thing spiritually for one person can be different than what is the right thing for another person, even if they are both orthodox Roman Catholics. Both the TLM and the NO are recognized by the Roman Catholic church.

It's fine if you feel one way MLF, but it's also fine if Lilli feels another way, especially when both opinions fit within Roman Catholic beliefs and teachings. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[vee]

There is more than one rite in union with the Catholic Church, the Roman rite is one but there are about 17 more. 

[dominicansoul]

 

There is more than one rite in union with the Catholic Church, the Roman rite is one but there are about 17 more.

And I'm sure there's snobby and arrogant people in all these rites.  Lol.

 

 

[Credo in Deum]

 

 

And I'm sure there's snobby and arrogant people in all these rites.  Lol.

 

 

Darn rite.

[dominicansoul]

If it is possible for someone to bring you closer to the faith, would not the converse be possible?

I'm pretty sure certain people can help you grow in virtue...

[MarysLittleFlower]

Lilllibettt was not saying it was snobby to consider one form of Mass especially beautiful and reverent for an individual person. (Lilli, correct me if I'm wrong about your meaning.) Lilllibettt was saying that perhaps it was better for HER spiritual life and growth not to go to Latin Mass, at least right now.

What can be the right thing spiritually for one person can be different than what is the right thing for another person, even if they are both orthodox Roman Catholics. Both the TLM and the NO are recognized by the Roman Catholic church.

It's fine if you feel one way MLF, but it's also fine if Lilli feels another way, especially when both opinions fit within Roman Catholic beliefs and teachings.

 Hopefully Lilllabettt can clarity what she meant.. I was just basically trying to say, - no reason to fear the TLM, even if we get prideful over something, the Mass itself is holy so we can just seek greater humility there are reasons why some people prefer the TLM after all, and though both forms have the Eucharist, the TLM can be very helpful in one`s prayer life.

Edited October 29, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[chrysostom]

 Hopefully Lilllabettt can clarity what she meant.. I was just basically trying to say, - no reason to fear the TLM, even if we get prideful over something, the Mass itself is holy so we can just seek greater humility there are reasons why some people prefer the TLM after all, and though both forms have the Eucharist, the TLM can be very helpful in one`s prayer life.

If I were to try and explain it...  Lilllabettt was not identifying any causal relationship between the TLM itself and pride/etc.  Any negatives such as pride she referred to would have been influenced more by contingent, social, localized, and personal factors.  It wasn't really about the TLM at its root.

But I get where you're coming from.  

[MarysLittleFlower]

I agree I don't think it was about the TLM itself  

[Lilllabettt]

I don't think its snobby to consider one thing especially beautiful / reverent.. Snobby would be thinking that I'm better for that. If that temptation happens its to be resisted. I don't think that's a reason to avoid that thing if its good for spiritual growth because we can often get attacked with temptations when we progress. The same temptation could be about anything religious we do. i don't think its like putting yourself into an occasion of sin because the thing itself is holy and to serve God.  Like if I felt prideful at saying grace in public - I should avoid the pride but I shouldn't not pray. I personally feel more fed spiritually at the Latin Mass so i go there. I don't know sometimes I feel awkward if people think 'the trads are 'weird'' but in the end its worth it just for the Mass, and practicing Catholics are probably already 'weird' in our culture.  Its a way to overcome human respect. It only matters what God thinks.  

 

It's great if you are spiritually strong enough to overcome your fear of human respect. Kudos.

My story is about how I was not able to overcome that, and my belief that God used my weakness in caring about human respect for my own good. 

It's also about my thought that someone being "pushed away" from the Latin Mass, or Catholicism, or religion, is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. 

Also perhaps you are not a liturgy snob. I am a liturgy snob. I don't get any practice grinding down my snobbitude at the Latin Mass.

By the way, my definition of snob is having such a refined sense of taste that you can no longer be grateful for what you are offered, should it be less refined.

[Gabriela]

By the way, my definition of snob is having such a refined sense of taste that you can no longer be grateful for what you are offered, should it be less refined.

Uh oh. That makes me a snob, too.

 

Which is hardly news, I guess... :\

[Dorian]

I understand. I can't bring myself to return to the Church because of other people, even though I miss Jesus.

I'm gay (homosexual, same sex attracted, have homosexual tendencies, whatever you want to say). I used to be a really devout Catholic. I went to Mass multiple times a week, I prayed ever day, I taught catechism to little kids. One day as I got older I had to face up to the reality that I was same sex attracted. I tried for a year to accept this and follow the Church, but I spiralled into depression. I felt so alienated from everyone and like I had this horrible secret I couldn't tell anyone.

The Catholics I knew spoke about 'homos' and 'qwerties' trying to destroy marriage.

The Catholics I knew compared homosexuals to bestiality and necrophilia ("gay marriage? What's next, pedophilia and bestiality?)

The Catholics I knew thought that homosexuals should be barred from working with children (as a catechism teacher I found this particularly hurtful), because apparently being gay means you're also a pedophile.

The Catholics I knew kept using terms like "the disorder of homosexuality", "the homosexual condition" and "suffering from same sex attraction" which made me feel like I had cancer.

 

In the end, it was much better for my mental health to leave all of that behind. I feel like a Catholic in exile. I think about going to a Protestant church, but without the Eucharist what's the point? I feel like the apostles: "Lord, to Whom else shall we go?" But I feel like I can't return to the Church, especially when this issue that affects me so personally is constantly being discussed as if it's an 'us' vs 'them' issue due to gay marriage and the Synod. Every time I miss the Church I see some stupid, homphobic or disrespectful comment on facebook or article from a Catholic website that paints me as some sick freak because I struggle with this sin and I'm reminded of why I left in the first place.

If every so called 'orthodox' or 'trad' Catholic I knew just followed the catechism's teaching that people like me ought to be accepted with respect and sensitivity and not discriminated against maybe it'd be different. But what use is this statement if it's not a lived reality? When I hear people justifying cutting gay friends out their life or comparing me to a pedophile what use is it to remind myself "oh, but the Church says I should be accepted with respect" when they remain just words on a page? 

Maybe it's not the best reason to leave. Maybe it's not completely logical. But it's why I left and feel like I can't come back.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Dorian

[Archaeology cat]

Welcome, @Dorian. I'm sorry others have made you uncomfortable and treated you with disrespect.  While nowhere near on par with your experiences, I have known the temptation to leave a parish at least because of how people treated me (families with small children who aren't robots and therefore aren't perfectly quiet are criticized harshly at times). Again, I'm not really comparing that to your experiences, because it's nowhere near that magnitude, just saying I can understand a little bit of that temptation to leave because of others. I do hope you come back, and I will pray for you and for those around you to treat you with the respect you deserve.  You might want to talk to @franciscanheart, too. 

[Credo in Deum]

I've been reflecting on the OP and this verse:

"And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."--Luke 23:34 

I found myself asking God to give me the grace to have supernatural charity and to pray this prayer when hurt by other Christians, even in my own parish, and also asking God to help others pray this for me when I hurt them; whether through pride, anger, ignorance, or even good intentions which have come off as being hurtful. 

Bl. Mother Teresa, pray for us to be missionaries of charity in our homes, churches, and communities both offline and online. 

[Benedictus]

@Dorian Thanks for sharing. I would say to don't let crass people cross your path or disturb your relationship with God. Jesus is there in the sacraments for you. He is the one that invites you and calls you -  worry less about the other people who happen to be there. Find what good you can in people, pray for them etc but sometimes its best all around to make a new circle of peeps to associate with. If people don't lift you up, even in the hard things that need to be said, then don't waste your time. You deserve better than that so don't let anyone pull you down with harsh language or ignorance etc. Ask God to help you out and guide you, even if its tough.

Difficult, ignorant, rude, nasty and backbitting people exist and it's easy for some people in the parish to think everything around them is rosy and chilled (it isn't). Seek out a good priest or a spiriual director that will listen.

I don't stress so much over people anymore. Negative people come and go, like storms and heavy rain. It is what it is. They sometimes try and tip your boat over rather than sort themselves out, whatever.  I have known people, mostly idealists or romantics, who get put off when things are less than perfect with an organization or group. They got burnt out real easy and hurt.

I used to be more idealistic too. I did two years on a Parish Council and it was, in large part, a nightmare and a challenge. I come to see that its easy for some people to get burnt quickly in certain situations. I come across people, and put up with, too much negativity. Thankfully, I had more positive experiences working with religious and a few dioceses than I got in that situation. 

My siblings also decided not to become Catholics because of negative people and similar stuff; they become Anglicans instead and took all their families with them. The ice is slowly melting, especially since I entered religious life, but it's still a tough issue. What people do matters more than what they say. Sadly, some religious people see it the other way around.

Stay strong and grounded! Don't let anything keep you from the sacraments, including yourself

[Ice_nine]

@Dorian so what if you're a "sick freak"? You're in good company.

All I mean to say is that Christ is for the broken, for the poor in spirit, for the overall hot messes. It's better to need Christ than to go through your life thinking you're put together and therefore don't need Him as much. It's a bit paradoxical.