How one can let other people influence their faith negatively

[KnightofChrist]

Crosscut is a sweet and caring person who has strong beliefs and voices her thoughts strongly. Some may find this annoying and hard to tolerate. But if I can see the good in her and account her amoung my friends surely others can too. She may be misguided even wrong on matters of faith but she is not a person who hates.

[Anomaly]

It is rather discouraging the way Religous adherents are always constantly constantly criticize the practice of their religion. It seems once you're over the hump of being a newbie, you have to have something to negatively comment about or be considered a superficial practicer or amusingly naive.   In my twenty plus years being involved in parish groups and youth programs back in the day, the constant negativity was the biggest reason volunteers ended their involvement.  

[Maggyie]

Honestly I think the way people act can make you les likely to JOIN a religion (because you develop a stereotype about that faith tradition). But negatively impacting? I feel it's often a form of passive aggression when people claim "he/she was mean to me so I am done." Perhaps my upbringing with the First Family of passive aggression makes me feel this way. I can see how dealing with someone who is outwardly devout but treats people roughly could be frustrating because you want to shake them. But that's separate from the faith itself. 

[Basilisa Marie]

I'm skeptical of the idea that "oh well we're all ultimately responsible for our own faith," not because I don't believe it's true (it is, at the end of the day), but because I think it's easy to use that as an excuse to not examine the ways you might be pushing people away. 

If someone leaves the Church because a Catholic is a jerk to them, they were probably on their way out anyway. But that doesn't absolve the jerk from being the reason why they left instead of the reason why they stayed and found healing.

It's even more notorious when it happens between Catholics. I work at a crazy Our Lady of Liberals parish with a crazy liberal pastor. It's a living. But a mile down the street is St. RadTrad, with a very traditional priest and a very traditional community. Sometimes I'm able to go to mass at St. RadTrad, and for the most part the community and the pastor have been lovely and warm, just like you'd hope a parish would be. But you also get the people who like to tell me Our Lady of Liberals doesn't ever show reverence and even question the validity of our Eucharist. And at my work parish, you get people saying that St. RadTrad is just a bunch of arrogant jerks who obediently worship the clergy. It's all stupid and wrong. 

I get that people like to criticize other groups in order to bond with each other and form a sense of identity. But we really shouldn't being doing it to other Christians. 

[MIKolbe]

If it is possible for someone to bring you closer to the faith, would not the converse be possible?

[Credo in Deum]

Saying "I am not my brothers keeper" didn't excuse Caine, and saying "they made me do it" didn't excuse Adam.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Credo in Deum

[KnightofChrist]

Saying "I am not my brothers keeper" didn't excuse Caine, and saying "they made me do it" didn't excuse Adam.

Adam tried to blame God too, "the woman you gave to me.."

We are responsible for our own actions and we should own up to those actions if they harm others. But we also cannot use the actions of certain individuals as an excuse or reason to negatively judge a whole group.  After all if a person of one race is abused by a person of another race it would be wrong for the abused person to negatively judge the race of the abuser.

[dUSt]

Yeah. Woulda coulda shoulda. 

I should never fail at many things, but I do. Your point of trying to strive for perfection is not a new concept, nor a concept I disagree with. 

It also does not lend very well to the conversation. 

If it is possible for someone to bring you closer to the faith, would not the converse be possible?

An eloquent point, so simply stated. Props. 

[Lilllabettt]

I had a similar experience with the Latin Mass. I preferred it, and loved it, but in the end was too humiliated by the idea of being associated with the crazy element that exists in that movement.

Very sad. But if I'm going to be honest, the blame is not on the crazy element for being crazy. It is on me for being too proud to chance being associated with them, even for the sake of my spiritual growth.

Actually, it was not the worst thing in the world for me to not go to Latin Mass. It probably would have fed my pride and the liturgy snob in me. See how that works? There's a good chance God used my pride to protect me from a situation where I would only get more proud.

 

 

 

[Era Might]

Adam tried to blame God too, "the woman you gave to me.."

We are responsible for our own actions and we should own up to those actions if they harm others. But we also cannot use the actions of certain individuals as an excuse or reason to negatively judge a whole group.  After all if a person of one race is abused by a person of another race it would be wrong for the abused person to negatively judge the race of the abuser.

It's entirely understandable if they generalize their bad experience. If your father beats you as a child, it's not unlikely that you'll project that relationship onto others. It's a psychological reality that we transfer, project, etc. We do not live in a realm of pure ideas...often people who relate to the faith as a system of beliefs often have some psychological need for security, assurance, etc. that blinds them to the subtleties of faith. Most people are not self-aware enough to untangle the webs of life, and simple things can become a stumbling block. "But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. "

Edited October 28, 2015 by Era Might

[Gabriela]

I get that people like to criticize other groups in order to bond with each other and form a sense of identity. But we really shouldn't being doing it to other Christians. 

Should we be doing it to anyone?

 

[Flashback to that time in Confession when Father asked me why I always indicate when I sinned against a fellow Christian:

"Is that worse than sinning against a non-Christian?"

"Well... it seems to be, Father, because it creates division in the Body of Christ."

"But Christ called us to love everyone."

"Yeah..."

Did my penance, then emailed a theologian: Unless my intention was to create division in the Body of Christ, sinning against a Christian was in no way worse than sinning against a non-Christian.

^Truth.]

[Norseman82]

We all need to realize that as part of the human condition people have their sore spots as well as their breaking points. 

I often think, "Why would someone leave their faith because of other people?"

For example, some people leave the Church not because of what the Church teaches, but because of how other people in the Church have treated them.

How can this happen?

Ask a victim of the clergy sex abuse scandal and you may get your answer.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Norseman82

[Basilisa Marie]

Should we be doing it to anyone?

 

[Flashback to that time in Confession when Father asked me why I always indicate when I sinned against a fellow Christian:

"Is that worse than sinning against a non-Christian?"

"Well... it seems to be, Father, because it creates division in the Body of Christ."

"But Christ called us to love everyone."

"Yeah..."

Did my penance, then emailed a theologian: Unless my intention was to create division in the Body of Christ, sinning against a Christian was in no way worse than sinning against a non-Christian.

^Truth.]

Eh, yeah, of course. But there's still something to be said for the scandal hating on your brothers and sisters in Christ causes, which is what I was more focused on. Like your theologian said.  

[MarysLittleFlower]

I often think, "Why would someone leave their faith because of other people?"

For example, some people leave the Church not because of what the Church teaches, but because of how other people in the Church have treated them.

How can this happen?

I still don't know why, exactly, but I've been thinking recently how my own faith has been negatively influenced by other people--and unknowingly, I allowed it to happen.

The Latin mass for example. When I first returned to the Catholic faith, I had a great love for the Latin mass. I wanted to find a Latin mass near me. I wanted to experience it. I wanted to promote it. I wanted to tell everybody I knew how amesome it was and how we should be asking our bishops for more more more!

Then, because of other people who loved the Latin mass, but disliked the Novus Ordo, I found myself having to defend the Novus Ordo. I never felt that I should have had to do that. In my overly optimistic brand of newfound Catholicism, I thought all Catholics should have a great love for all of the Church's treasures. After all, we are universal, yet, have many different orders and forms of worship. It's what makes us amesome.

So, because of "people", I found myself on the defensive, and over time, my love and zeal for the Latin mass never blossomed into what it should have been. This is directly because of overzealous people forcing me to take a side--as my love for the Church demanded.

So, unintentionally, I allowed people to influence my faith and the way I worship.

I guess it's not so hard to imagine how something like this can manifest in other walks of faith.

i sort of had the opposite in a way... I becameCatholic with the Novus Ordo and over time began to feel drawn to everything traditional, but since people around me didn't share my enthusiasm for this, (though they didn't dislike it, just maybe I was more into it), it made me feel lonely and like I don't belong in the Church. I guess I wish the traditional devotions etc were more known. Now I attend an FSSP parish and I love it.

Generally I've wondered why people leave the Church because of others. I can see how it can happen but no matter what people do, I never want to leave the Eucharist. So by God's grace I hope I will always stay. There was a long time I had no friends in church and I woud go only to spend time with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. I think it should be about Him not people. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I had a similar experience with the Latin Mass. I preferred it, and loved it, but in the end was too humiliated by the idea of being associated with the crazy element that exists in that movement.

Very sad. But if I'm going to be honest, the blame is not on the crazy element for being crazy. It is on me for being too proud to chance being associated with them, even for the sake of my spiritual growth.

Actually, it was not the worst thing in the world for me to not go to Latin Mass. It probably would have fed my pride and the liturgy snob in me. See how that works? There's a good chance God used my pride to protect me from a situation where I would only get more proud.

 

 

 

I don't think its snobby to consider one thing especially beautiful / reverent.. Snobby would be thinking that I'm better for that. If that temptation happens its to be resisted. I don't think that's a reason to avoid that thing if its good for spiritual growth because we can often get attacked with temptations when we progress. The same temptation could be about anything religious we do. i don't think its like putting yourself into an occasion of sin because the thing itself is holy and to serve God.  Like if I felt prideful at saying grace in public - I should avoid the pride but I shouldn't not pray. I personally feel more fed spiritually at the Latin Mass so i go there. I don't know sometimes I feel awkward if people think 'the trads are 'weird'' but in the end its worth it just for the Mass, and practicing Catholics are probably already 'weird' in our culture.  Its a way to overcome human respect. It only matters what God thinks.  

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower