African Cardinal compares gay rights movement to Nazism

[Didacus]

I will not try to convince anyone of anything, but two things to consider if you please.

 

One - homosexuality in our <modern> day is a single element of the <culture of death> - term coined by JP the Great.  

Two - the common element between the <culture of death> and early 20th century Germany (and many parts of the US during that same time by the way) is the valuation of personal benefit, profit to self and society as being the means to evaluate the human life itself.  IE; the culture of death teaches that personal gratification is more important than the natural moral law, the German government of early 20th century (for reasons that can be seen in part by the link I posted above) decided to affix a value to human life proportional to the contribution the individual is capable of providing society as a whole.

The net effect of both is eerily similar within a given society. 

 

Point two above, I believe, is the fundamental basis giving validity to a comparison between the two.  The good cardinal correctly points out, in dramatic terms granted but nonetheless in my opinion correctly, that the two share very real and very deadly similarities.  I believe the good cardinal intended at least in part to give our <modern> day and age a warning and draw attention to these present dangers which history would seem is repeating.

[Era Might]

 

What Nazi-Fascism and Communism were in the 20th century, Western homosexual and abortion Ideologies and Islamic Fanaticism are today.

So should we really be worried? Nazi-Fascism and Communism in the 20th century both died out...so assuming these other ideologies of today are "the same," what is there to worry about? They'll die out within the century, America will become the dominant Superpower of the world, and (presumably) Islam will fall like the Soviet Union?

Edited October 14, 2015 by Era Might

[Credo in Deum]

 

So should we really be worried? Nazi-Fascism and Communism in the 20th century both died out...so assuming these other ideologies of today are "the same," what is there to worry about? They'll die out within the century, America will become the dominant Superpower of the world, and (presumably) Islam will fall like the Soviet Union?

These ideologies did not die out.  There are still communists and national socialists.  Furthermore these things would have grown to epic proportions had it not been for good people calling out these evils for what they are and doing something about it!  Yet this is not what is happening today with the two ideologies the Card. is speaking about.  No, nowadays people are defending evil and calling what is good as being evil when it says something.  Nowadays these evils are being invited and welcomed into schools, ministries, parishes, and synods.  

[Era Might]

These ideologies did not die out.  There are still communists and national socialists.  Furthermore these things would have grown to epic proportions had it not been for good people calling out these evils for what they are and doing something about it!  Yet this is not what is happening today with the two ideologies the Card. is speaking about.  No, nowadays people are defending evil and calling what is good as being evil when it says something.  Nowadays these evils are being invited and welcomed into schools, ministries, parishes, and synods.  

Gays going to city hall and getting married vs. Nazis marching in the streets terrorizing Jews and the opposition

The Pope signing a concordat with Nazi Germany vs. The world pretty much in agreement that ISIS needs to be destroyed

People having indiscriminate sex vs. People having indiscriminate sex (so this hasn't changed much, though society's social structures have, for many reasons that have nothing to do with homosexuals, more to do with capitalists)

The Pope just visited America, as did his predecessors, and had a lot of nice things to say. Not exactly the 1936 Berlin Olympics. The cardinal's allusion to St. Paul and Christ vs. Belial makes sense...it's not a silly comparison of temporal political moments but a point about an eternal struggle between good and evil. Stick to Scripture.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Era Might

[Maggyie]

Just have to call out the bit about the developed world... Being rich does not make us smarter or more ethical than the poors. God chose to become man in what was then an impoverished backwater and is now the 3rd world. And actually the1st world (Romans) turned around and crucified him. How advanced of them!!

[Credo in Deum]

Gays going to city hall and getting married vs. Nazis marching in the streets terrorizing Jews and the opposition

The Pope signing a concordat with Nazi Germany vs. The world pretty much in agreement that ISIS needs to be destroyed

You mean LGBTQ task force pushing same sex marriage onto those who object to it and criminalizing those who do not submit to their agenda? 

The concordat was a strategic move to keep Catholics from being at the mercy of the Nazis who viewed them as a threat.  It was not an approval of their ideology. 

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/history/nazi-policy-and-the-catholic-church.html

 

[Socrates]

Both the political "gay rights" movement and the prevalence of abortion, and its support and promotion by the state, are rooted in the ideology of the "sexual revolution" which insists on consequence-free sterile sexual activity of all sorts to be an absolute right - needing protection and support from the state.  This is the "culture of death" that St. John Paul II spoke out against. 

And in the slaughter of billions of unborn children, this ideology has a very real death-toll.  Like other evil ideologies such as Nazism and Communism, it leads to very real evil actions, including mass-murder (even if committed under the innocuous-sounding language of "choice" and "women's health")

These ideological movements are also fascistic in their use of the state to force compliance and punish opposition.

As for various forms of Islamic fanaticism (ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc.), the similarity of their murderous hatred and anti-Semitism to that of the Nazis should be obvious, un-pc as it might be to say so in certain circles.

 

Frankly, I find it refreshing to see some strong talk on these widespread evil ideologies from Church leadership.  God bless those African Cardinals!

Edited October 14, 2015 by Socrates

[Socrates]

 

So should we really be worried? Nazi-Fascism and Communism in the 20th century both died out...so assuming these other ideologies of today are "the same," what is there to worry about? They'll die out within the century, America will become the dominant Superpower of the world, and (presumably) Islam will fall like the Soviet Union?

In your opinion, should Church leaders speak out against any public evils in the world?

[Era Might]

In your opinion, should Church leaders speak out against any public evils in the world?

Sure, but the less they stick to the Gospel, the less credibility they have. Just because a bishop uses strong words doesn't mean he's saying anything insightful. There are lots of books with real insight into ideologies. Of course, most people aren't intellectuals exploring the nature of ideology, but it makes them feel good to hear Nazism invoked because they have a vague idea of Nazism as a generic archetype of evil. To me, it would be actually shocking to hear things like, love your enemies, or he who lives by the sword dies by the sword, or how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. References to Nazis only makes the church look dumb and ideological. Also, the fact that there is ideological pressure today does not make it the same as Nazism or Fascism or Communism, which were all very specific historical ideologies. America enslaved millions of people and systematically imposed a system of white supremacy....that doesn't mean Nazism and American racism were in any way comparable except in general particulars like the social fact of racism.

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Era Might

[organwerke]

I totally agree with Cadinal. For what is happening these months in Italy about this topic, I can definitely say the lgbt movement has the same attitudes as all the totalitarism in the XX century. It's an unhuman ideology, that adfirms that sexual difference is only a cultural difference, that promotes eugenetic practices that were tipical of nazism, that for example in african countries forces the governments to send helps only if they promote lgbt "rights" and so on. I ask all of you to pray that these laws won't become reality in Italy. There is a very hard battle, pro-life movements are doing a hard resistence but it's not easy. I hope with all my heart we can stand up against these ideological inhuman laws. Marriage is only between a man and a woman because only this relationship is blessed with the gift of the miracle of life.

Edited October 15, 2015 by organwerke

[Norseman82]

Here's a simple rule of life : don't make comparison with nazism. As long as the victims of nazism and their sons, and the sons of their sons, are alive, don't make comparison with nazism. It's insulting on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.

When the nazis were in the power, my family was arrested, executed, and send to concentration camp. We had to wear the yellow star, and to be hidden, or to die.

By comparing this situation with the actual situation, this cardinal is minimizing the horror of the holocaust. It's borderline antisemit.

I repeat : if you have a minimum of decence and education DON'T MAKE A COMPARISON WITH THE HOLOCAUST or you're a jerk

Actually, the opposite is true - both the abortion industry and the Nazis paint their victims as "subhuman" at best in order to justify killing them. 

Also, the Nazis would haul opponents of their ideology to jail and concentration camps, and the militant politically correct harass people who oppose the gay rights agenda.  Look at how Indiana was forced to backtrack on a simple law that would protect people who follow their religious conscience.  Look at what is happening in Canada under their human rights commission, including a Catholic bishop who was hauled before it.  The Nazis had the Gestapo doing that, and the militant gay rights movement have what some call the "gaystapo" doing that. 

The Nazis had a ministry of propaganda under Goebbels that would, through its language, set a media agenda for Nazi ideology; the secular media, by the language it uses, set a media agenda for gay rights, and we sometimes hear that practicing one's religion = bigotry.

[veritasluxmea]

The Holocaust, while unparalleled throughout human history so far, didn't happen in isolation from human history. I think it's ok to draw some allegories or point out issues of similarity with other events or people where they actually occur (not scare tactics). Destruction and war on that level can happen again. How else can we prevent anything similar from happening again if we can't recognize it as it unfolds? 

On another note, I think the comparison the Bishop draws between the two (gay rights movement and Nazism) has some merit, but it's pretty basic. It's like drawing a comparison between Donald Trump and Hitler. Yes, it's there, but you can draw elements of human and mob psychology from the Holocaust/Nazi history and see them reflected in many other events and people in history. Evil isn't creative. There are certainly troubling elements to the movement that can be compared with Nazism, but it's not really the same. I think that's the point the Bishop is making. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by veritasluxmea

[Didacus]

The Holocaust, while unparalleled throughout human history so far, didn't happen in isolation from human history. (snip)

hummmmm

 

Mao and Stalin killed far more people than Hitler.  

Ever hear of Holodomor? Many more people died in that than the holocaust. And the percentage of children in Russia was far higher (no contest!) than the holocaust.  

Look up Rwanda? How about the Armenian genocide?

 

History check please?

[Seven77]

If you stand back and look at it, there's nothing problematic with the Cardinal's words. Please go back and read them very carefully. Better yet, read the full text of his intervention at the Synod.

"You can not join Christ and Belial! What Nazi-Fascism and Communism were in the 20th century, Western homosexual and abortion Ideologies and Islamic Fanaticism are today."

The ideology of Islamic fundamentalism today is just as evil as the ideology of Nazism yesterday. The parallels are pretty obvious.  What about abortion?The mass killing of those "in the way." This is the thinking of Nazi-Fascism. Communism under Stalin also resulted in these things. As for the militant homosexual ideology, it ushers in a kind of intolerance for thinking differently and persecutes those who do think differently.

It's important to keep in context these words of Cardinal Sarah's. He didn't go saying these things on CNN-- he was addressing the Synod! He was warning them against these ideologies that assault the family (ideologies which seek to *murder* the divine institution of marriage and family). His words certainly don't *make the Church look dumb* because he wasn't at some kind of press conference with secular folks. Definitely not like the hateful rhetoric of the Westboro Baptist Church that only seek to incite and cause controversy.