Cardinal Danneels admits being part of clerical ‘Mafia’ that plotted Francis’ election.

[Nihil Obstat]

Dr. Peters has been on top of the Daneels/ Gallen Mafia question.

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/automatic-censures-should-be-eliminated-from-church-law/

Check out his Facebook page for shorter, less formal posts.

 

Once again, some are questioning the validity of the election of Pope Francis. Once again, it is all nonsense. The latest manifestation of this theory holds that because some figures seem to have agreed in advance of the conclave to push Cdl. Bergoglio’s candidacy, they might have incurred latae sententiae excommunication (Universi 81) and therefore—therefore what?—therefore the election of Francis is invalid? Where does conclave or canon law say THAT? I tell you where: Nowhere.

Such reprehensible agreements are themselves null (as in, they do not bind in conscience those who might have entered into them), they might result in serious criminal sanctions (and if we would ever get rid of automatic censures, we would have actually to face such hard questions, instead of dodging them each time they come up, as we currently do), but any ballots cast in a conclave in accord with such evil pacts are valid. Period. End of discussion.

Francis is pope. Shoulder on, people.

 

 

 

 

[blazeingstar]

Dr. Peters has been on top of the Daneels/ Gallen Mafia question.

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/automatic-censures-should-be-eliminated-from-church-law/

Check out his Facebook page for shorter, less formal posts.

 

Once again, some are questioning the validity of the election of Pope Francis. Once again, it is all nonsense. The latest manifestation of this theory holds that because some figures seem to have agreed in advance of the conclave to push Cdl. Bergoglio’s candidacy, they might have incurred latae sententiae excommunication (Universi 81) and therefore—therefore what?—therefore the election of Francis is invalid? Where does conclave or canon law say THAT? I tell you where: Nowhere.

Such reprehensible agreements are themselves null (as in, they do not bind in conscience those who might have entered into them), they might result in serious criminal sanctions (and if we would ever get rid of automatic censures, we would have actually to face such hard questions, instead of dodging them each time they come up, as we currently do), but any ballots cast in a conclave in accord with such evil pacts are valid. Period. End of discussion.

Francis is pope. Shoulder on, people.

 

 

 

 

So basically, the Pope is the Pope and there may be some Cardinals and Bishops out there in Mortal Sin.  Again I ask, What is the big deal?  We are Catholics.  Church hierarchy is not a democracy.  We are not called to wag our tongues over discussion boards and speculate as to the state of Cardinal's souls.

To me, most of these things are done so as to create division and suspicion around the Pope.  To almost make it like the hanging chads in the election in Florida or the supposed mafia involvement in JFK's election...to basically. 

[Nihil Obstat]

So basically, the Pope is the Pope and there may be some Cardinals and Bishops out there in Mortal Sin.  Again I ask, What is the big deal?  We are Catholics.  Church hierarchy is not a democracy.  We are not called to wag our tongues over discussion boards and speculate as to the state of Cardinal's souls.

To me, most of these things are done so as to create division and suspicion around the Pope.  To almost make it like the hanging chads in the election in Florida or the supposed mafia involvement in JFK's election...to basically. 

The point is that it is a very serious issue to have cardinals colluding and acting dishonestly. Obviously it is not going to destroy the Church. Does not mean we just let it happen. Corruption must be weeded out, for no other reason than that it is evil.

[Benedictus]

I'm not surprised these groups exist and I would assume they always have. I think it would be naive to think that such meetings or informal discussions, whatever they want to call themselves, never happen. I think the Vatican has always been aware of this and I would imagine the same thing happens within its own internal politics. So is life and human fragility.

Danneels and the all the rest of them have left nothing of a legacy in any of the places they have held power. Their dealing, ideas and so on are no shock to anyone.

I do believe that going forward the Church will reform so that the US and Europe have less control over church affairs, as it should be going forward. The growth in the Church is in the Southern regions and they have different ideas about how things should work out than Danneels. A church that simply concerns itself with areas of decline will always seek to reform in a way that will either implode or fragment because they are desperate and running out of ideas, power and numbers.

I do think though that the admissions to the media highlight a few things, aside from the vanity and shameless pride of those concerned. The first is that this group, and similar of them, failed after the death of Saint John Paul ll to control events - Pope Benedict was still elected even though they had been meeting as a group for ten years.

The second admission is that they knew they'd not secure one of their own as a replacement. That is very telling; no sympathetic leaning American or European Cardinal could secure the spot and they knew it. The third, and where I think they made a mistake, was assuming Pope Francis is playing ball with them. He has, if anything, allowed these people to come into the light out of the shadows and they assume it may be to their benefit. I don't think that's the case at all. Sometimes it's better to keep your friends close and your enemies even closer!

The Pope has held authority in his own country during troubling times and he has faced his own problems within the Jesuits. I don't think he is naive, but will do what he feels he can to get the various factions in sight and then turn all their folly upside down. This may well break the false notions, that always comes along with factions, and instead turn their hearts to the Gospel. That, if anything, would be a good presumption of what God would want for us all.

 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Benedictus

[Gladius]

If B16 was forced out, the election of his successor would be null and void.  How would we know unless B16 came forward?  There are two Popes living together in the Vatican right now.  First time in history, very strange.

[PhuturePriest]

On 12/24/2015, 9:03:37, Gladius said:

If B16 was forced out, the election of his successor would be null and void.  How would we know unless B16 came forward?  There are two Popes living together in the Vatican right now.  First time in history, very strange.

We know because Benedict himself said he is not the Pope and freely resigned in response to the conspiracy theories that he was forced off the Chair.

We do not have two popes. We have one pope and one pope emeritus. Benedict is not the first pope to ever resign. We shouldn't act as if this is some new anomaly we've never seen before and have no idea how to handle.

Edited December 26, 2015 by PhuturePriest

[superblue]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2015‎ ‎8‎:‎46‎:‎48‎, bardegaulois said:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-danneels-admits-being-part-of-clerical-mafia-that-plotted-francis

I've long known that there have been deep fissures among the cardinals that really started coming to prominence when St John Paul II was weakening. Under Benedict and now under Francis, they seem to be becoming more and more public; witness the Synod last year. I could long have guessed there was an anti-Ratzinger cabal among certain highly placed figures, but I think this is the first open admission of that.

Any thoughts or opinions about what's going on here?

well, this has to be wrong because we know that only the Holy Spirit directly inspires and suggests who to vote for, an God would never let a pope be forced out.  there is just no possible way that the perfect monarchy can be corrupted by human error.

[KnightofChrist]

37 minutes ago, superblue said:

well, this has to be wrong because we know that only the Holy Spirit directly inspires and suggests who to vote for, an God would never let a pope be forced out.  there is just no possible way that the perfect monarchy can be corrupted by human error.

I'm not sure that's really true. There have been some pretty bad popes which would show that the man in the office isn't protected by human error.

[Luigi]

I just find it suspiciously weird that W.C. Fields used to use "Godfrey Daniels!" as an exclamation, and that the Cardinal has the same - albeit Hollandized - name.

What nefarious influence has W.C. Fields been exerting on the Church hierarchy all these years? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Nihil Obstat]

2 hours ago, superblue said:

well, this has to be wrong because we know that only the Holy Spirit directly inspires and suggests who to vote for, an God would never let a pope be forced out.  there is just no possible way that the perfect monarchy can be corrupted by human error.

I hope that was a satirical post.

[superblue]

2 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I hope that was a satirical post.

yeah I was being sarcastic, and this is what happens when groups of people get into a voting power and are left absolutely unchecked by those whom they are governing. It is shameful upon the cardinals that they act in underhanded ways, and even worse that they find such actions perfectly acceptable, and then expect the outside world to trust them in other matters of importance.

[KnightofChrist]

1 minute ago, superblue said:

yeah I was being sarcastic, and this is what happens when groups of people get into a voting power and are left absolutely unchecked by those whom they are governing. It is shameful upon the cardinals that they act in underhanded ways, and even worse that they find such actions perfectly acceptable, and then expect the outside world to trust them in other matters of importance.

Lol, it's hard for me to tell who is serious and who is not these days. Oh well.