Cardinal Danneels admits being part of clerical ‘Mafia’ that plotted Francis’ election.

[bardegaulois]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-danneels-admits-being-part-of-clerical-mafia-that-plotted-francis

I've long known that there have been deep fissures among the cardinals that really started coming to prominence when St John Paul II was weakening. Under Benedict and now under Francis, they seem to be becoming more and more public; witness the Synod last year. I could long have guessed there was an anti-Ratzinger cabal among certain highly placed figures, but I think this is the first open admission of that.

Any thoughts or opinions about what's going on here?

[Basilisa Marie]

It's the kind of careerism and political maneuvering that Francis is speaking against. 

[Gabriela]

:facepalm:

Eww.

This reminds me of all those people who say that talking about the "divided Church" is what's responsible for dividing the Church. I think it's pretty clear from this that our discussing the divisions is not the root of the problem.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Gabriela

[Era Might]

Ratzinger will go down in history as a notable figure and thinker. Daneels will get a biography that will be forgotten in a month. Thus always to petty beauracrats.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Era Might

[blazeingstar]

Why does it really matter who "plotted" we have to have faith that God works through even the greatest sinners.  Falling into the rumors is akin to diving into any nonsense conspiracy theory.  It really doesn't matter how he got elected, Pope Francis is validly the Pope.

[Nihil Obstat]

Why does it really matter who "plotted" we have to have faith that God works through even the greatest sinners.  Falling into the rumors is akin to diving into any nonsense conspiracy theory.  It really doesn't matter how he got elected, Pope Francis is validly the Pope.

Of course it matters. Conclaves are not immune to human influence, as history amply shows. It is eminently possible for unscrupulous individuals to damage the Church through collusion in a conclave.

[blazeingstar]

Of course it matters. Conclaves are not immune to human influence, as history amply shows. It is eminently possible for unscrupulous individuals to damage the Church through collusion in a conclave.

If it doesn't make the Pope a false Pope than it doesn't matter because God will still work through it.  You can have people who are ordained and hand-picked by God and then later make a terrible mess of things---think King David.  That a conspiracy may have occurred---or may have simply occurred in one person's mind--doesn't really reflect that anything is wrong.  Bishops have had their favorites for millennia...they talk...it doesn't make it a conspiracy, and it doesn't make it evil.  There has been an "Anti-whatever-pope-is-in-power" vibe for every Pope.  Acting like this is something stunning or new is just feeding the press about how much a few "old men in Rome" "hate" Francis or Ratzinger, or John Paul....etc, etc

[Nihil Obstat]

John Paul II seemed to think it was pretty important. As does literally every other pope ever.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_22021996_universi-dominici-gregis.html

CHAPTER VI

MATTERS TO BE OBSERVED OR AVOIDED IN THE ELECTION 
OF THE ROMAN PONTIFF

78. If — God forbid — in the election of the Roman Pontiff the crime of simony were to be perpetrated, I decree and declare that all those guilty thereof shall incur excommunication latae sententiae. At the same time I remove the nullity or invalidity of the same simoniacal provision, in order that — as was already established by my Predecessors — the validity of the election of the Roman Pontiff may not for this reason be challenged.23

79. Confirming the prescriptions of my Predecessors, I likewise forbid anyone, even if he is a Cardinal, during the Pope's lifetime and without having consulted him, to make plans concerning the election of his successor, or to promise votes, or to make decisions in this regard in private gatherings.

80. In the same way, I wish to confirm the provisions made by my Predecessors for the purpose of excluding any external interference in the election of the Supreme Pontiff. Therefore, in virtue of holy obedience and under pain of excommunication latae sententiae, I again forbid each and every Cardinal elector, present and future, as also the Secretary of the College of Cardinals and all other persons taking part in the preparation and carrying out of everything necessary for the election, to accept under any pretext whatsoever, from any civil authority whatsoever, the task of proposing the veto or the so-called exclusiva, even under the guise of a simple desire, or to reveal such either to the entire electoral body assembled together or to individual electors, in writing or by word of mouth, either directly and personally or indirectly and through others, both before the election begins and for its duration. I intend this prohibition to include all possible forms of interference, opposition and suggestion whereby secular authorities of whatever order and degree, or any individual or group, might attempt to exercise influence on the election of the Pope.

81. The Cardinal electors shall further abstain from any form of pact, agreement, promise or other commitment of any kind which could oblige them to give or deny their vote to a person or persons. If this were in fact done, even under oath, I decree that such a commitment shall be null and void and that no one shall be bound to observe it; and I hereby impose the penalty of excommunication latae sententiae upon those who violate this prohibition. It is not my intention however to forbid, during the period in which the See is vacant, the exchange of views concerning the election.

82. I likewise forbid the Cardinals before the election to enter into any stipulations, committing themselves of common accord to a certain course of action should one of them be elevated to the Pontificate. These promises too, should any in fact be made, even under oath, I also declare null and void.

83. With the same insistence shown by my Predecessors, I earnestly exhort the Cardinal electors not to allow themselves to be guided, in choosing the Pope, by friendship or aversion, or to be influenced by favour or personal relationships towards anyone, or to be constrained by the interference of persons in authority or by pressure groups, by the suggestions of the mass media, or by force, fear or the pursuit of popularity. Rather, having before their eyes solely the glory of God and the good of the Church, and having prayed for divine assistance, they shall give their vote to the person, even outside the College of Cardinals, who in their judgment is most suited to govern the universal Church in a fruitful and beneficial way.

84. During the vacancy of the Apostolic See, and above all during the time of the election of the Successor of Peter, the Church is united in a very special way with her Pastors and particularly with the Cardinal electors of the Supreme Pontiff, and she asks God to grant her a new Pope as a gift of his goodness and providence. Indeed, following the example of the first Christian community spoken of in the Acts of the Apostles (cf. 1:14), the universal Church, spiritually united with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, should persevere with one heart in prayer; thus the election of the new Pope will not be something unconnected with the People of God and concerning the College of electors alone, but will be in a certain sense an act of the whole Church. I therefore lay down that in all cities and other places, at least the more important ones, as soon as news is received of the vacancy of the Apostolic See and, in particular, of the death of the Pope, and following the celebration of his solemn funeral rites, humble and persevering prayers are to be offered to the Lord (cf. Mt 21:22; Mk 11:24), that he may enlighten the electors and make them so likeminded in their task that a speedy, harmonious and fruitful election may take place, as the salvation of souls and the good of the whole People of God demand.

85. In a most earnest and heartfelt way I recommend this prayer to the venerable Cardinals who, by reason of age, no longer enjoy the right to take part in the election of the Supreme Pontiff. By virtue of the singular bond with the Apostolic See which the Cardinalate represents, let them lead the prayer of the People of God, whether gathered in the Patriarchal Basilicas of the city of Rome or in places of worship in other particular Churches, fervently imploring the assistance of Almighty God and the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit for the Cardinal electors, especially at the time of the election itself. They will thereby participate in an effective and real way in the difficult task of providing a Pastor for the universal Church.

86. I also ask the one who is elected not to refuse, for fear of its weight, the office to which he has been called, but to submit humbly to the design of the divine will. God who imposes the burden will sustain him with his hand, so that he will be able to bear it. In conferring the heavy task upon him, God will also help him to accomplish it and, in giving him the dignity, he will grant him the strength not to be overwhelmed by the weight of his office.

[Amppax]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-danneels-admits-being-part-of-clerical-mafia-that-plotted-francis

I've long known that there have been deep fissures among the cardinals that really started coming to prominence when St John Paul II was weakening. Under Benedict and now under Francis, they seem to be becoming more and more public; witness the Synod last year. I could long have guessed there was an anti-Ratzinger cabal among certain highly placed figures, but I think this is the first open admission of that.

Any thoughts or opinions about what's going on here?

Daneels  realized his reputation was ruined by the sex scandal, and he's trying to rehabilitate his image by attaching himself to a popular Pope. I think that this group probably did play a big part in Francis' election, though based on reports from the 2005 conclave (where reports say Francis was alarmed to be receiving votes and begged people not to vote for him) I'm guessing Francis wasn't involved. All this means is that there are bad cardinals, and we should pray for their souls, because they've really put them in danger. 

Also, I tend to believe Benedict when he says that he resigned freely. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Amppax

[CrossCuT]

I feel similarly to Blazey. Regardless of the motive behind action, it was God's will that Francis be Pope. God chose him to fulfill some purpose that may or may not be evident to us right now.

[KnightofChrist]

The Holy Ghost guides the election of the Pontiff. He does not directly choose the Pontiff.

[CrossCuT]

So are there Catholics out there who do not believe Francis to be the true pope? Or that he is the result of human corruption and error? Is there a divide?

[Oremus Pro Invicem]

When I read these articles I have to remember to say the serenity prayer.

[Nihil Obstat]

The result of a conclave is part of God's passive will, certainly. His active will, perhaps in very limited cases, but very rarely.

That is, God allows the current conclave process, He allows the man chosen to be a valid pope with all the authority and power entailed by that. Did He specifically reach down out of heaven and smack exactly 60 cardinals on the back of the head and tell them "VOTE FOR BERGOGLIO"? Highly unlikely.

So are there Catholics out there who do not believe Francis to be the true pope? Or that he is the result of human corruption and error? Is there a divide?

Well there is the usual crop of sedevacantists. They have been so independent of Pope Francis. There are probably a small handful of new sedes who think that Francis specifically is not a valid pope for reasons X Y or Z, but as far as sedevacantism goes they are likely by far the minority. You would find significantly more  Catholics who, accepting he is a valid pope, nonetheless think he is not a very good one.

[bardegaulois]

So are there Catholics out there who do not believe Francis to be the true pope? Or that he is the result of human corruption and error? Is there a divide?

If certain cardinals were involved in the grave crime of collusion in a conclave, I don't believe it would invalidate that conclave, in the same manner as a sacrament performed by a priest in a state of mortal sin does not affect the validity of that sacrament. Something can be illicit but still valid according to canon law; witness the Lefebvre consecrations. Those consecrated are still bishops, however irregular, even if their crimes excommunicated them for a time. However, I'm no canonist, and any opinions from canonists would be most welcome. Aside, I'd love to hear what my favourite canon lawyer, Cardinal Burke, might have to say about this.

As yet, aside from that tiny minority of sedevacantists described by Nihil Obstat above, there were some who held to the thesis advanced by Antonio Socci that Francis might be an antipope. This was not based on any shenanigans in the conclave, but rather on the view that Benedict's abdication was not canonically valid. This view was so pervasive that the Pope Emeritus even addressed it in a letter to the press: http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/benedetto-xvi-benedict-xvi-benedicto-xvi-32340/. Francis hasn't spoken about this view at all, except perhaps indirectly last week: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-im-no-leftie-jokes-about-not-being-anti-pope-on-flight-to-usa.